Why Fashion Needs a Voice in Washington with Hilary Jochmans

Hilary Jochmans  00:00

The Congress is in session now. This is their busy season. This is when they're starting the appropriations process, which is by way by which they fund everything in the government. So everyone's coming in and asking for money, essentially, right now. So there are a lot of people coming in DC. This is the time to do it up through July, and then they go home in August, and then, you know, September, October is running up to the election, so this is really a prime time for advocacy and engaging in DC.

Emily Lane  00:39

Welcome to Clothing Coulture A fashion industry podcast at the intersection of technology and innovation. I'm Emily Lane and I'm

Bret Schnitker  00:46

Bret Schnitker. We speak with experts and disruptors who are moving the industry forward and discuss solutions to real industry challenges.

Emily Lane  00:54

Clothing Coulture is produced by Stars Design Group, a global design and production house with more than 30 years of experience.

Emily Lane  01:08

Welcome back to another episode of Clothing Coulture. Today, we're thrilled to welcome an expert who sits at the intersection of fashion policy and advocacy spaces that are increasingly shaping the future of our industry. Hilary Jochmans is the founder of politically in fashion, a community and platform dedicated to those in the business of fashion, such as designers, manufacturers, artisans, retailers, models, lawyers, reporters and yes, even consumers, helping them to understand the legislative and regulatory issues that truly impact how our industry operates. Her work demystifies complex policy conversations and brings them directly to the people who need them most, from sustainability regulation to supply chain transparency to labor rights and global trade, Hilary has become a go to voice helping the fashion world navigate a rapidly evolving policy landscape. We're excited to dive into how policy is reshaping fashion today and what brands need to be paying closer attention to how advocacy can empower all of us to drive meaningful change. If you enjoy this conversation today and need help navigating the complexities of our world, don't hesitate to reach out to us at www stars design group.com, Hillary, welcome to this conversation. We're so excited you're here.

Hilary Jochmans  02:30

Thank you so much for having me. I've been looking forward to this for a while.

Emily Lane  02:33

Yeah, we we got on each other's radar almost it seems like a year ago. At this point, we've been trying to coordinate this. It must be busy out there.

Hilary Jochmans  02:43

Things are very busy here. Yes, it's a busy season, to be sure. And I know for you as well, it's always the

Emily Lane  02:49

busy season, always okay. So I find what you do to be absolutely fascinating. Of course, we're in the, you know, the space of fashion, where we're designing and manufacturing for our customers, but you're like, on this legal front side, law like, tell me for you, what inspired you first? Was it the fashion side or the legal side?

Hilary Jochmans  03:11

I guess if we're going chronologically, it would be the fashion side. It's always been a passion of mine. It's something I've always enjoyed. I have wonderful memories of being a child and shopping with, you know, both my parents picking out special clothes going with my grandmother on a trip. I find fashion to be a beautiful way of self expression. I wore a uniform for school for 12 years, and so finding a way to express myself within the confines of the uniform was a was a really creative outlet, and something I enjoyed very much. And so when I think about fashion, I think about it, you know, sort of as an umbrella term, right? So not just the clothing, but our accessories, our shoes, our jewelry, things like that.

Emily Lane  03:54

I can relate to that. I remember there was a time that I also worked in advocacy and and I, you know, I was wearing very buttoned up suits at that time. And you know that my opportunity to be able to dress creatively was my great form of expression. So I really appreciate, like that connection to fashion for you. You know, you founded politically in fashion to bridge this industry and public policy. What made you realize that, you know, this industry really needed its own legislative educational platform.

Hilary Jochmans  04:30

So I always had this passion and this personal enjoyment, and then through my career, I worked a lot on Capitol Hill for about a dozen years, and I was also the director of the New York governor's office here in Washington, and I saw fashion in a different way. Fashion is an economic driver and what it means to communities, to cities, to countries, even, and it really is an industry, right? It's not just the frilly, shiny objects, it's not just how it's portrayed in Delaware's. Product. It is an industry, and there are folks in this industry that needed to have a voice in Washington, needed to have easily accessible information about public policy development that was impactful to them. Now there are trade associations in DC already that do this, and they do a wonderful job on behalf of their members, but there was this whole segment of the fashion ecosystem that really wasn't represented there, and so I was looking for a home where I could marry sort of my personal interest and my professional interest. And when I couldn't find one, that was why I created politically in fashion.

Bret Schnitker  05:33

That's incredible. You know, we are we are always told, don't talk about politics, don't talk about religion. We'll get the Pope on next week, Chicago, we're weighing in, talking politics today, and you know, so many people in the fashion industry, especially in the business of fashion, over the years, it's always been this kind of tightrope, navigating Politics right? We, we, we deal with the ramifications of political administrations. We are in a very interesting, you know, category of product. There's always challenges around the world, and lately, there is a ton and and recently, the apparel industry has been hit with a ton of different legislations that have significantly brought the importance of us weighing into the political spectrum to protect our assets, to protect our livelihoods, to be more informed in all of that. What's your recommendations for people that are like, holy smoke, I wanted to stay out of this, but, but I can't so well.

Hilary Jochmans  06:43

I think you're right. It is a business decision, and just like anything else, anything else you have to follow or engage on. You know, you may not love doing your taxes, but you have to do it for your business. May not love having to keep up with advocacy and policy development, but you need to, because it's just as important to your bottom line.

Emily Lane  07:01

Absolutely, for those who might feel intimidated and not know where to start to kind of get a handle on understanding what's happening, what's where's a good place to

Hilary Jochmans  07:11

start, sure, well, it can be intimidating. We say that right off the bat. I mean, it's a tremendous amount of information. And if you're looking at the federal level, it's very different than looking at the state level or the city level. So just even the structure and the types of bills and who's running things, so there's a lot of different ones to be watching, and I recognize that's very challenging. It's time consuming, and it can feel a little bit overwhelming in Congress, here in Washington, almost 8000 bills have been introduced this session. And this session started January 2025, so in 14 months, we have 8000 bills introduced. That's a lot to keep up with.

Emily Lane  07:50

Yeah, oh my gosh. So

Hilary Jochmans  07:53

what I recommend is, you know, I'll start with sort of a shameless plug with politically in fashion. That is what we do. We try to distill the information that's out there and put it in sort of digestible and actionable ways for folks to consume this information. So we look at what bills have been introduced, how it could impact the industry, what regulations are out there. Federal regulations can seem like a very opaque, boring area, but they are directly impactful to so many businesses. We're seeing that for sure, yes, and we try to see, keep, keep abreast of what the political environment is without being political. And that's really a tightrope that we have to to walk. You have to talk about, you know, who's in charge, who's in the minority, who's dictating that the the conversation. But you can say it in a way that is not, you know, quote, political. It's just acknowledging the realities. Yes, Republicans are in control of Congress right now, Republicans are in control of the administration. But that doesn't mean you have to speak poorly or positively about either side. It's just It is a fact of what the realities are, and traditionally, some parties may be more interested in certain areas of legislation, and some and others, and sort of recognizing that world helps us to think about what things actually might happen, where you should start to engage and sort of get a roadmap for where things might be heading for the year. Separate from that, I think it's really important for folks to get to know who their representative is in Congress and Senate, of course, also at the state level, but I won't even talk about that for now. It's a whole separate conversation, but you're thinking about who your representative is, and if you don't know, and lots of people don't, and that's okay, there's a you just go to house.gov www.house.gov you type in your address, and I'll tell you who your congressional representative is, yeah, and we actually had a

Bret Schnitker  09:44

firsthand experience with you, Hillary, I guess it was months ago where, for the first time in a long time, we got we got caught between government shutdown and a inspection on a shipment that came in. They got stuck. For a long period of time, and your recommendation was, reach out to your representative. And we hadn't in a long time, but we did. They were, they were wonderfully responsive. They came back and long story short, by just reaching out and communicating, things were cleared up relatively soon, and I'd say hindsight, I would have done it much quicker. Thank you for that advice. You know, I just didn't expect anyone to really care, and they

Emily Lane  10:28

did, right? You were, yeah, you raised such a good point. Bret. So many times people feel that their voice really doesn't matter, that they really can't change things, right?

Hilary Jochmans  10:38

I understand that, but having worked in this field for a long time, my first job actually was answering the phones in a congressional office. And you hear all kinds of things in that capacity, but one of the things that is a takeaway from that job and from all the other offices is they do keep track of those calls that come in. It's important for them to know where their constituents are on an issue. So it does register, it does matter. And so I encourage people to make those phone calls, to send the emails, not to date myself, but back in the day, people were sending faxes to share their opinions. I don't think they do that anymore, but I know all the members, everyone's on the various social platforms you know, follow them on whatever platform you enjoy engaging on, look at their websites and see what they care about, and sort of build that relationship early on, especially if you're a business, because if you're having an issue, you know, employing people in their district, that's something congressional is really want to hear jobs and the economy are the key issues for both sides of the aisle in every election year and in every year. And so to have that conversation is impactful to them.

Emily Lane  11:50

That's really great insight. You have advocated for a fashion czar in the United States. What? What does this role look like? What would the what problems would they be solving? And you know what? What? What benefit does this bring to our industry? Sure.

Hilary Jochmans  12:07

So the idea came about from an article from Elizabeth siegn and Fast Company back in 2021 and the concept was this, that fashion is a multi faceted industry, right? They're impacted by policy areas running the gamut from labor and employment, health and safety, trade, environment, immigration and everything in between. And as things are regulated, it's usually siloed, right? You have an agency that works on environmental issues, you have an agency that works on trade, you have an agency that works on labor, etc. So the idea of a fashion czar, with somebody who would sit sort of at the 30,000 foot level and be able to see all the different areas that are impacted, impactful for the industry. The idea of a fashion czar, you know, it was kind of a quirky thing to say, and got people's attention. You know, you'll get a lot of headlines, like creating a Senior Policy Advisor job. But the czar, you know, made his people sort of stop and take listen to it. But it's, it's not a made up term. The United States has had stars, policy stars, for over 100 years, starting with World War One preparedness, the auto czar. Why 2k drugs are, you know, everything you can think of. And the idea is it's a senior level person who really has the ear of the President and can see all the different pieces on the chess board. So you don't just have the Secretary of Labor working on these issues or the secretary of the environment, but you have somebody who can see all the pieces out there. And this got a lot of response. Brands were open to it. Thought leaders were open to this idea of having someone to be their advocate in Washington. And, you know, have it be a name that people recognize. So unfortunately, it was not ever implemented. But I stand behind the concept today that somebody in the senior level who can look in this look at the industry in a holistic way and all their public policy needs and how they come together, I think is really important.

Bret Schnitker  14:04

That's because they don't take this industry very seriously. I think that's been

Hilary Jochmans  14:09

a problem, right, for any number of reasons. It is, it's glamorous, it's glitzy, it's fun. You know, it's

Bret Schnitker  14:16

portraying tech, right? It's not like is it really tripping off that many dollars. And certainly, you know, you look at America in terms of production for apparel, it's six tenths of 1% of the entire apparel production worldwide. Do you think that's one of the challenges that

Hilary Jochmans  14:35

I think it's a variety of things. I think as a whole, the industry hasn't engaged a lot historically with because they haven't been regulated a lot, and that's really changing in the last five years, both in terms of policies that are more directly on point for the industry, and just generally, an awakening and a recognition of, oh, yeah, you know this labor policy is going to impact what I do. Tariffs is really driven home for people before that. I would say the supply. Chain issues. You know, people didn't that didn't really roll off the tongue, pre 2020, for a lot of folks. But once people couldn't get their PPE and realizing why that was a problem, suddenly supply chain was a very at home issue, and people started talking about it a lot more. I think part of the reason also, is a lot of the industry, you know, you think of sort of like the big brands, big companies. Yes, there are those folks. But even the quote, a lot of big brands are very lean teams, right? So they don't have the bandwidth to spend a lot of time engaging on public policy. We've seen that, yeah, whereas other industries, you know, they think about financial services or economic development or healthcare kind of issues, I mean, they're just big, even the smaller ones are big companies, yeah.

Bret Schnitker  15:52

And you find also, you know, stretches in the apparel industry, in terms of profitability, you know, statistics, National Retail Federation, the statistics this year is what brick and mortar was one and a half percent net profit up 3% that, you know, after all these overhead and expenses, they're still running really, really lean. It's, it's an industry that that hasn't seen the profitability, and we don't have lots of dollars to be throwing off into different areas. But you're right. I mean, it's kind of walked into us. We we have to engage right now, because it's impacting things when we when we talk about, you know, I've always had this conversation about, you know, our industry in the 80s kind of for us, manufacturing. We kind of abdicated. We said, Isn't it isn't for us overall. There's, there's a lot of conversation about bringing stuff back near shoring on shoring. There's an act where they're trying to give some dollars for people to bring stuff back home. But you know, when you look at the industry itself today, we were just in Carolinas and visited a really great manufacturing operation. But when you hear his story, it's beleaguered, right? He is clinging on. He's got this fully vertical situation, you know? He He talks about that the industry here for us, manufacturing has been buoyed a lot by very compliant US government programs. And he's like, we haven't had orders in nine months. I mean, we're not getting orders to help secure that. We're having regulation that is challenging. You know, our infrastructure, in terms of dying plants and assembly and labor costs are going up when you look at all these things for the US manufacturing, you're and people are talking about bringing this back home. Are we protecting something in the US that's better suited offshore? Do you see, do you see any government support and regulation. You know, I think Trump came out and said, Look, we're not really interested in supporting the US apparel sector as much bringing other things back. No, no, it was not helpful.

Hilary Jochmans  18:15

You know. No, I think this is an example of where you have to look at in a holistic way, right? I mean, I think a lot of people sort of throw around the term, like, we're going to reshore We're sure we're going to come back on and we're going to throw some money at the at the issue, but it's not just one part of it. You got to look at it, and we got to make sure we have a physical space to do the manufacturing right before. We still have it in good amounts of the country, but a lot of places now that space, whether we're looking at like in the garment center in New York or or any other sort of industrial spaces. There are other uses. Other people want that space for things. So hold on to what we've got. To the extent we have machinery, a lot of times it needs to be updated. So you've got to invest in the technical the machines itself, not inexpensive, not inexpensive. You need to invest in worker training, right? Make sure folks know how to use both the machines, but also the craft part of it, right? I mean, there's still a lot of it. You see this in Europe, a lot really, the craftsmanship that is still essentially done by hand. And there's a particular kind of skills training to do that work. And then you have to have the designers who want to manufacture your who want to see the benefits of not having to send something halfway around the world and deal with supply chain issues in that sense. So yeah, and this is a little more controversial, maybe you have to look at the immigration rules as well to make sure we have folks who can work in the factory. So it's a very it's a multi faceted issue. You can't just do one part. You have to look at it in a holistic way. But I think when folks say we don't make anything here full stop, that's not helpful. We don't make a lot of stuff here right now, but we could make more.

Bret Schnitker  19:53

Yeah, I think with robotics, technical advances, we're seeing whole garment knitting. We're seeing. Seeing the opportunity to do that, but we, I don't see influence of AI, yeah, I don't see there's enough support to really build it today. And I know that. You know, again, these are amazing guys that have clung on to the local industry. We just had dinner last week with him, with a lot one of the largest mill groups and in the US, and even they are struggling to keep stuff on shore. It's just, it's, it's an interesting dynamic, yeah, we're impacted, certainly by tariffs and everything else lumping in. You know, I

Hilary Jochmans  20:34

find it interesting that people are willing to say, Okay, well it may not be the interest here, and let it go. I feel like any other industry, we'd be like, no, no, we got to hold on to it, you know? And for some reason, there's this mindset that it's okay for that to go away.

Bret Schnitker  20:50

Yeah, well, it's so small. And the question is, is, if we're if we're really not protecting something in the US, why are we then impacted by all the tariffs to the same degree as something that you're trying to protect or build back in the US, right?

Hilary Jochmans  21:05

Yeah, well, I mean, the tariffs weren't about protecting, no, they're about anything. Yeah, you're right.

Emily Lane  21:10

So while we're You're right. So while we're on this topic, I'm actually going to skip forward, because, you know, one of the things that we're talking about with domestic manufacturing, there is a 30% reshoring tax credit and federal grants tied to this topic. But you know, given the complexities that we were talking about right now, does that incentive? Can it really make a difference?

Hilary Jochmans  21:34

So I think the bill you're talking about is the fabric Act, which was introduced by Senator Gillibrand from New York and Congressman Nadler, also from New York, on the House side, whose district does encompass the garment center in New York. The bill was a build out of a labor bill that came out of California, SB 62 but They broadened it at the federal level to include Yes, this 30% tax credit for reshoring production. I think this goes back to talking about before that. Yes. I think that that's great. I think that's a really key part we need, you know, government support in order to build this out. But it has to be looked at in the bigger picture, right? What else is needed to go along with that, to support it? Because the 30% just to reassure what? What is that, right? What the devil's in the details here? Right? Like for so many things, I think

Emily Lane  22:21

that act is such a clever acronym, fashioning, fashioning accountability and building real institutional change. What are some of the key goals of this act?

Hilary Jochmans  22:31

So it is primarily a labor bill, right? It's to provide certain labor protections for the workforce in apparel production. But like I said, at the federal level, they do have this tax credit for reshoring. There was also the creation of an undersecretary in the Department of Labor to look at labor issues. So it was trying to look at the industry. I think it's probably the most encompassing fashion bill that was out there, and certainly got a lot of attention when it was introduced in the 2022 2023 timeframe, but unfortunately, it never got any bipartisan support. It was only Democrats that supported it in both the House and the Senate. And there could be any number of reasons why that's the case, but in this political environment, it is crucial to have bipartisan support in order to move anything along. Go ahead, I would argue with any political environment, you need to have bipartisan support policy right? But now, I mean, the math is such that this was only supported by the party that's in the minority, so the math just doesn't work. Even a bill was only supported by the party in the majority, math might not work either, because they don't necessarily all vote on block, and so that's why they're and it's very tight margins in both the House and the Senate right now. So you really need to have bipartisan support to get anything over

Bret Schnitker  23:55

the finish line. Yeah, just since we're talking politics, look united. We stand divided we fall. There's a lot of challenge with with the split in the parties today and and people need to grow up and understand we got to do what's right for America. But you know, when you talk about, you know, this bill and its emphasis on labor, it's such a surprise to me, because, you know, when we're dealing with manufacturing and ethical labor overseas. That is the first conversation that comes up when we're building product for everyone else. Are you rap certified? Are you scope? Do you, you know, fair trade? I mean, this is a checklist that is mandatory for us overseas, managing ethical manufacturing. And I guess, naively, I'm surprised that that's an issue in the US. I mean, we're in the fishbowl we should care for our workers. Is that really such a challenge in the US?

Hilary Jochmans  24:50

Well, I've heard things from sort of both sides here in the US as to whether or not this particular bill is needed everywhere there was a problem. And I think definitely in California, this was trying to adjust address, I should say, some of the issues, some of the piece rate payments, some folks feel that's either not used very much or only used as an incentive on top of a base pay. So maybe this wasn't needed nationwide. You know, I can't really comment on the details on that, but I think there was a big focus on the on the labor part. And I think when it's framed as a labor bill, it de facto becomes very political, and folks don't see the other parts in the bill about the reshoring, about the Secretary of Labor, looking at the economic benefits. But it was, it was very much couched as a labor bill. Yeah, tough sell these days,

Bret Schnitker  25:45

it is, for sure. And when you look at, when you're looking at an environment where, in the US to bring, to bring apparel back in any shape or form, you've got to be competitive, and raising regulation creating more issues, creates more cost. And you mentioned, hey, everyone's working so lean, so if they're having to manage more regulatory practices that cost more, you, in essence, reduce the market even more because people are, man, I can't afford to weigh into more regulation. And it's interesting on the piece rate conversation versus hourly that was an issue overseas for a long time, because you would pay workers in China or these other areas on a piece rate, and they would work long, long hours. They would break all these rules and regulations because they needed to bring income into their families. And this per piece rate thing really stimulated kind of more of a slave labor kind of situation. And so, you know, I can understand domestically, one of the benefits that you see for per piece rate is that if you have efficient workers, and you're paying them per piece they move through things more productively. We call them Sams. You know, these processes, these process per minute evolutions. And if you increase profitability, you lower the cost, you become more competitive. But you have to showcase that. Like you said, it can't be done in a vacuum. You know? It's got to be overall and and so it's a really interesting dynamic.

Emily Lane  27:15

Absolutely, are there any other kind of fascinating issues that you have your hands in right now that you're working on that people should be aware of.

Hilary Jochmans  27:24

There are a few, I would say, obviously, tariffs and the conversation changed a lot last month with the Supreme Court, yes, with the Supreme Court ruling that the IEEPA tariffs, which is the authority the President had used for imposing these tariffs, that that was not allowed. So three things come out from my perspective, three things come out of this. One, what does the President do next? Because he's made it clear that he's not going to say, okay, tariffs are off the table. There are already two other authorities that he could utilize to essentially achieve the same goal with tariffs. Two, what happens all those tariffs that were already paid? What's the refund process? And that is the $64,000 question right now. Is it going to be litigated in the courts? Is CBP going to be able to handle it? There are a lot of unknowns there. And then. Three, what can Congress do about this? You know, Article One of the Constitution gives the power of tariffs to Congress. Since the founding of the country, they have essentially granted a lot of that power to the president, but the Constitution remains in effect, and they Congress is the one with the power of tariffs. There had been sort of this agreement amongst Republicans in the House that they were not going to bring up any bills to challenge the President's tariff authority. Right in this Congress, that changed actually, right before the Supreme Court decision came down, they passed a bill that addressed the Canadian tariffs, and then the Supreme Court decision came down, and that changed the game on everything. But regardless of what happens there's there's going to be more opportunities for Congress to engage both statutorily as well as, I think just politically. A lot of members were starting to feel pushback from their constituents about where were they in this discussion about tariffs. So I think there are some opportunities for folks to start to weigh in with their electeds about what does this tariffs meant to them, either as a business owner, all the complications you know that, for example, you guys have had, and then as consumers too, and what does this mean to your bottom line, in an era where everyone's talking about affordability, for for housing, for food, tariffs are very impactful to that. You know, our conversation is focusing on fashion, but tariffs impacted everything and really affected people's bottom line. So I think the tariff issue is obviously going to be a big one to watch going forward this year, and I think also to keep an eye out for any other bills that maybe are passion projects of members of Congress that they think they're going to be able. To get through. Because look at the house. Everybody's up for re election in November. Everyone needs to go home and run on something that they did, something they delivered for their constituents. That's sort of, you know, election 101. This is what you need to what have I done for my constituents? So this, this may be a time to get some bills through on some recycling issues, some environmental issues.

Emily Lane  30:25

Just gonna ask you that, what's the likelihood of that given the administrative administration stance on sustainability, right?

Hilary Jochmans  30:35

Also looking at a bill on and a regulation on labeling, on clothing labeling. So, you know, look, everything's an uphill climb in Washington right now, to be perfectly honest, in part because of the sheer amount of issues that are happening every day. You know, those 8000 bills I referenced before, they're just so many different things, and there's a different crisis every time. So just getting the attention of anybody to advocate and move move forward some of these pieces is a real challenge, so that's why I, you know, I advise folks to make sure you come to Washington physically or, you know, electronically, so make sure that your voice is heard, because there's a lot of noise down here, and you need to be able to cut through that and explain why these things are important to you going forward,

Emily Lane  31:24

I have a crazy question, are there, are there days, weeks, or anything like that, that are kind of dedicated to this industry that people should be thinking about coming to Washington and advocating for? You know, the things that we're challenged with? No that's a great question,

Hilary Jochmans  31:43

actually, because so many different industries or health issues do have, you know, a day a week a month, and there are Advocacy Days, and what they call fly ins, where people come in to do that. But there's really not one for fashion. Some of us have been advocating for something just like that, but this point, there's not so just looking in the grand scheme of things, Congress is in session now. This is their busy season. This is when they're starting the appropriations process, which is by way by which they fund everything in the government. So everyone's coming in and asking for money, essentially right now. So there are a lot of people coming in DC. This is the time to do it up through July, and then they go home in August, and then, you know, September, October is running up to the election. So this is really a prime time for advocacy and engaging in DC.

Bret Schnitker  32:33

You know, one of the things too, that we learned we we went to the Capitol here in Missouri and had a conversation of quote fashion day, and we didn't get the attention of the representatives until I reframed fashion with apparel and started speaking statistics about the dollars and the employment and the minute they disengaged. When you said fashion, he's like, I buy my stuff at Target, you know, whatever. And then you go through that conversation, it's like, Look, we all wear clothes. This is a massive industry. Let's talk apparel. Let's talk about the business of apparel. Let's drop the fashion moniker, because that comes with so much interesting baggage that that I think this, this sector that we're talking to doesn't really get they label it as something artificial or non important. And I think talk Yes, right, frivolous. And it was interesting, the dynamic shift, and we talked to peril, and you know, we are going through, as an industry, unprecedented challenge. You mentioned the tariffs that are, that were happening. And to me, when you're when you're talking about tariffs, and, you know, you very eloquently stated, it has nothing to do with protection of, you know, US manufacturing, both, both administrations have protected tariffs. It's a taxation, right? You know that's really what it is, but there should be some exclusionary tariff considerations for the challenge that the apparel industry is going through, because we do have needs to manufacture offshore in some way. We're also now besieged by an Iranian war that started here, and our freight costs have gone through the roof, complicating all these things. I really hope that you manage, and the teams manage to build a garment czar. We need a focused person in Washington to address the real challenges that are going on in the industry. It's great that we have someone in you as an advocate, you were helpful to us along our journey. I hope more people understand that there are people that have experience navigating what we consider a complex landscape in Washington that can make a difference.

Hilary Jochmans  34:56

It's funny you say that I 100% of. Agree that, unfortunately, maybe using the term fashion is not the best entree into a lot of offices. And I gotta say, when I started politically in fashion five years ago, I got a lot of hehe, and even someone tried to keep a straight face like there was a twinkle in their eye when they go, that's what you're working on. That's cute, and not realizing, not focusing on the industry part of it. And so the best way to combat that is with with numbers, with data. Yes, you know, that's what goes back to my point earlier about, you know, if you're an employer, going to your representative and saying, Hey, I employ five people, 10 people, 50 people, whatever, in your district, these are jobs. That's the kind of thing that folks are going to listen to it, puts it in a very understandable, relatable way, just like any other industry, brings jobs and really focus on and we've had some data issues. I think we don't necessarily have a lot of data on the industry, but to the extent that we do, whether it be macro or micro, it's so important to use it really helps make the case.

Emily Lane  36:04

So okay, we talked about making sure that you're aware of what's going on today. And of course, people can do that by, you know, checking out politically in fashion and getting your newsletter and being part of your community. We've talked about, you know, get taking that trip to DC and being a part of those that are advocating for the changes that are needed. Are there other concrete actions that people can take that will help, you know, help them stay engaged, help move the needle in positive directions for those working in our industry,

Hilary Jochmans  36:39

I think finding allies is very key for a few reasons. One, if you are a very lean team and you don't have a lot of resources in house, to find other folks like you, either in the industry or tangential to your industry, where you can come together, share information, go together to your elected officials and talk about what it is that you need, because there are strength in numbers here and to really, really come together and coalesce as much as you can find advocates and colleagues that are supportive. If you are in a bigger office or bigger team, bigger company, check out and see what they're doing. Do they have someone looking at public policy issues. It could be through their sustainability office, if they have one, it could be through their general counsel's office and make sure that this is something that they are are watching for and engaging and being prepared to weigh in on when appropriate.

Emily Lane  37:35

That's really great advice. Thank you so much Hillary for joining us today. I I love getting your newsletter, by the way. I'm sure that that takes a ton of work, but I always find it highly informative, so I encourage everybody out there to check it out.

Bret Schnitker  37:51

And we're in this dynamically different landscape. We need the information more than ever, and so I really urge people to go out and and subscribe. And yeah,

Hilary Jochmans  38:01

and we are doing our advocacy day this spring,

Emily Lane  38:05

okay, winter.

Hilary Jochmans  38:07

We're finalizing the day right now based on members availability. We did one last year, and it was great, you know, for folks to be able to see us and to meet with representatives on both sides of the aisle and talk about, what are these issues that are important to us? And you know, you got to show up do the work. And if you remember that old commercial food water, you got to be in it to win it. Exactly the same situation here.

Emily Lane  38:29

Well, make sure and share that information with us, and we will make sure to share that as well, because, like you said, there's power in numbers, and this definitely will help build more allies, right? Thank you so much Hillary for joining us, and thank you our audience for joining us as well. Our next issue of our magazine is now available. This is the playbook for 2026 we're addressing a lot of the issues that we talked about today, and more. There are almost 20 articles in this in this magazine. So go to our website for clothing Coulture, www dot clothing coulture.com, and download that episode. And of course, don't forget to subscribe to say a prize of upcoming conversations.

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