Bob Burg, Emily Lane, Bret Schnitker
July 9, 2024
Bob Burg 00:03
Some people think, well, if you're a Go Giver, you've got to say yes to everybody and you've done it. No, it's not what being a Go Giver is about at all. In fact, as a Go Giver, you tend to be very, very successful. And as such, you've always got people asking you to do things. And you know, no one has the time, the energy, the bandwidth, the desire or whatever, to do everything that people ask them to do, it's not always appropriate to do so. And it's not. So you've got to be able to say no, a Go Giver must be able to say no, but to do it in a way that honors the other person, as well as honoring their own boundaries.
Emily Lane 00:52
Welcome to Clothing Coulture, a fashion industry podcast at the intersection of technology and innovation. I'm Emily Lane.
Bret Schnitker 01:00
and I'm Bret Schnitker. We speak with experts and disruptors who are moving the industry forward and discuss solutions to real industry challenges.
Emily Lane 01:08
Clothing Coulture is produced by Stars Design Group, a global design and production house with more than 30 years of experience.
Emily Lane 01:19
Welcome back to another episode of Clothing Coulture. Today is a very special day for me, I we have welcomed one of my personal author heroes to have a conversation with us today. So it's a little bit of a different format. Because usually we are really focused on our own special niche of the apparel industry. But the information that we're going to talk through the day is applicable to, no matter what industry you're in, we're welcoming in Best Selling Author, to the tune of millions of copies of books, which is just phenomenal.
Bret Schnitker 01:56
You bought half of them,
Emily Lane 01:57
And give them them away. Speak or mentor to all people from the average Joe, to the top high level CEO. It is just my delight to share and introduce Bob Berg to this conversation. Hello, Bob.
Bob Burg 02:14
Hi Bret and Emily, it's so great to be with both of you. Wow.
Emily Lane 02:18
Oh my gosh. Well, I, as Bret mentioned, I have given away a lot of your books, it is something that your books stay in my library. And anytime somebody new comes to the team, I'm the first to say your first job here is to read this book. The Go Giver is an all time favorite of mine. And you know it has, as you mentioned, Bob in our pre discussion, it's one of those books that when you read it, it just intuitively in your heart feels like it makes perfect sense. And I've had the pleasure of practicing this philosophy in life and work and felt its value. And so it just really is exciting to me that we're gonna get to share this information with our family today.
Bob Burg 03:10
Well, thank you. It's true. Thank you.
Emily Lane 03:14
Yeah, thank you. So for those of our followers that aren't familiar with the Go Giver, do you mind just sharing a brief overview of the story? Sure, itself.
Bob Burg 03:26
Yeah and this was co authored with John David Mann, who's an absolutely brilliant writer and storyteller. And really, he his expert writing made the characters and the story come alive. And it's, it's about a guy named Joe and Joe is he's a good guy is you know, he's sort of an up and coming you know, ambitious, aggressive, wants to, you know, make the sale and have everything, but again, he's a good guy, but he his, his focus is in the wrong place. It's all about who owes what to him, and why you know, he should be successful just be you know, little little bit of that entitled, if I just, you know, do this, then everything should come to me. And he really learns a valuable lesson from a one main mentor, and then and then several others, and it really comes down to this is that shifting your focus, and this is really where it begins shifting your focus from getting to giving and when we say giving in this context, we simply mean constantly and consistently providing immense value to others. Understanding that doing so is not only a more fulfilling way of conducting business, it's the most financially profitable way as well. And then not for some, you know, kind of way out there woowoo magical mystical, you know, kind of go just give and do good things and good things but no, not not at all. It's actually much more rational than that. It's it really comes down to this when you are that person Who can take your focus off of yourself and place it on serving others, discovering what they need, what they want, what they desire, when looking not so much at it yourself, but how to help them solve and overcome their problems and challenges, when you can move off of you and onto helping move them closer to happiness. You know, people feel good about you, they feel great about, they want to get to know you, they like you, they trust you, they want to be in relationship with you, they want to do business with you. And really, they want to tell the world all about you. They want to be what we call your personal walking ambassadors. And that's really, you know, the the premise of the entire story.
Emily Lane 05:47
I love it.
Bret Schnitker 05:48
That's great. You know, in the story, you and Emily kind of inadvertently talked about the average Joe, Joe's the actual
Bob Burg 05:58
The average Joe or Joseph, right. We've all been there, that person who just, you know, had good intention was willing to work at it, but just something wasn't quite there. We've all we've all been there. Yeah.
Bret Schnitker 06:10
And I think the story tells, you know, him going through this amazing awakening, understanding these five laws, and, you know, it changes things around him. When you when you started and came up with the idea for the book, was this an awareness that happened in your own personal life? Is this a journey that a mentor, kind of filled you in on? How did this all come about?
Bob Burg 06:34
Yeah, great question. And it's sort of both, I mean, I wouldn't dream. But no, no. No, I'm not that smart. I don't have those kinds of visions. But, you know, at first, I was very fortunate to, you know, be raised by two wonderful people, you know, very blessed to have a great mom and dad and so did John. And, and so, you know, I saw I got to just watch how, how to be, you know, a decent person, right, how to, you know, treat people well, and how to go out of your way to be good to others and to bring value to others. But then, you know, you get into the business world, and you see people doing things in certain ways. And you see people doing things in a way that that seems good. And in a way that doesn't seem good. And you see people have different results. And sometimes it seems like the wrong results to happen. And you wonder, you know, you're stuck, but you begin to see patterns develop. And one of the things I did notice was that the people who were the most successful financially as well as what seemed to be emotionally and relationally, and all those other ways, and sustainably. So, okay, these were the people who were always focused on what they were giving to others, not in a self sacrificial way, no, not at all. But in a good way, in an intelligent way, a way that brought that moved everybody forward and brought, you know, may have improved everyone's lot. And but uh, you know, a big thing that did happen once I had been in sales for a couple of years, and had done fairly well after a slow start, because I had no sales experience when I began. But fortunately, I had found some books that were very helpful. And I started going to seminars, and all that a couple years do pretty well go to a different company, and I'm selling a another product. And I just, I was in a slump. And I could not seem to get out of that slump. And I made a young salespersons mistake, and that is panicking. And as I did that, I was focusing not on my customers, I was focusing on myself, right? Yeah. And there was a guy at the office where I worked. He was not in the sales department. I think he was an engineer or something. And he retired soon after that, and I didn't know him well. But nice guy quiet. didn't say much. But whenever he did say something that was always rather profound, and
Bret Schnitker 09:03
somewhat something like the character in your book that gives Joe some advice, very strangely familiar. And,
Bob Burg 09:10
and so I think he saw me as sort of a Joe, you know, a guy with good potential, but who was not focused in the right direction. And he, he said to me, Burg, he was a last name kind of guy. He said, Burg, can I give you some advice? And I said, Yeah, please do I need it. And he said, If you want to make a lot of money in sales, he said, don't have making money as your target. Your target, he said, is serving others. Now. When you hit the target, he continued, you'll get a reward. And that reward will come in the form of money. And you can do with that money, whatever you choose, but never forget. The money is simply the reward for hitting the target. It's not the target itself. Your target is serving others. And that's when it hit me. That great salesmanship is never about the salesperson. Great salesmanship is never about the products or services as important as those are. And they are, that's never what it's about. Great salesmanship is about the other person. It's about that person whose life you are trying to bring value to, or probably more accurately, you can say it's about that other person's life being better, just because you are part of it. And I think if we approach sales from that foundational premise, then we're really always nine steps ahead of the game in a in a 10 step game.
Bret Schnitker 10:45
Yeah.
Emily Lane 10:46
It's really important as you're engaging with people to have those ears open and truly be thoughtfully listening so that you can know those opportunities where you can help make meaningful connections for them or provide value.
Bret Schnitker 11:01
Yes, yeah, really like to your point, a lot of people might ask, Well, how do I know what they really want? You know, and it comes through. Another big key skill of Emily's is asking a lot of questions. Yes, you've got to really focus on the customer and ask them questions to understand what value can bring to them?
Bob Burg 11:19
That's right, because value is always in the eyes of the beholder, right? You know, when you think about it, and people say, Well, what, what does value really mean? You know, it's a word that's used all the time. But what is, and I like to say, you know, when we talk about value, compare it to price because people think it's the same thing, but it's not $1 price is $1. Figure, it's $1. Amount. It's, it's finite, it simply is what it is. Value, on the other hand, is the relative worth or desirability of a thing of some thing to the end user, or beholder? In other words, what is it about this thing, this product service concept idea, what have you, that brings so much worth or value to another person, that they will willingly, let's say, in this case, exchange their money for it, and be glad they did. While you make a healthy profit. And it goes far beyond just the intrinsic value of the product or service. It's the entire experience that you're providing them. It's the excellence, it's the consistency, it's the attention, you're provides the empathy, it's the appreciation, it's everything at every single touch point, that makes them feel good about themselves, that makes them feel good about you, that makes them feel good about the situation.
Bret Schnitker 12:42
Yeah, it's interesting. In today's world, we want to be transactional behind a wall. There's, you know, chat boxes, there's automatic things. And this whole very important relational aspect of, of, of client interaction seems to be contrary to some, some movement for it in the modern day, but it's, there's no no replacing, developing your great relationship with somebody because it lasts a very long time.
Bob Burg 13:10
Oh, absolutely. And that's why, you know, we say that, and Sam, and one of the mentors in the story had said this to Joe, that all things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to those people they know, like, and trust. And here's the thing, there's no faster, more more powerful, more effective way to elicit those feelings toward you from others, than by genuinely and authentically moving from that I focus or me focus to that other focus, or as Sam put it, making your win all about the other person's win. And, you know, if I may add one thing to that, you know, there are people who, if they, if they haven't read the book, or haven't sort of been exposed to this kind of, of teaching, so placing their interests first. I mean, I bet that sounds on nicey nice and everything, but does that really work? Well, I would say this, and I used to do it when I spoke all over in front of, you know, sales audiences. Um, I'm 66. Now so I don't travel anywhere. I don't I don't get on a plane to speak so. So I used to write and so I'd start out by by, you know, saying nobody's gonna buy from you because you have a quota to meet. Right? Right. No one's gonna buy from you because you need the money. And you know what, nobody's gonna buy from you just because you were really nice person. Right? So we're gonna buy from you because they believe they will be better off by doing so than by not doing so. And when you think about it, that's the only reason why anyone should buy from you from me from from anyone else. But this is great news for that entrepreneur or sales professional, who really has a heart for bringing out to the other person. And you know, so the the so when we say place the other person's interest first we don't mean that again in a self sacrificial doormat II type of way not at all, what we mean is, if you want this sale to take place, you're gonna have to put your self interest to the side and focus totally an absolutely, and the value that they would be deriving from this.
Emily Lane 15:24
There are some phrases in our business world that I would say. Maybe don't do people real favors things like the concepts of all scratch, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours and things that really are go against some of this value chain that you're really talking about. What are some of those key phrases that you think people should be striking from their business vocabulary? Yeah,
Bob Burg 15:52
well, you know, when you talk about the scratch my back and I'll scratch your I scratch your back use grow whatever it is, that's 50 is a losing proposition that Sam was talking about, is that what it really is, is 100. And that is chest focus 100%, on bringing value to that person, forget about what's in for you. And here's the thing. And people, I think, sometimes misinterpret this, they'll say, well, well, Burg and Mann, they're saying, you know, give without expectation, and that's I understand what they mean. But I think what they really mean is this, give without attachment to the results. See, I want people to have positive expectation, why wouldn't we? Now it doesn't have to be from that person that did but means that if you're providing immense value to the lives of lots and lots of people on an ongoing, consistent basis, you're creating that what we call benevolent context for your success. So if you're doing this, yeah, you should expect to do really, really well. Okay, that's different, though, from being attached to the results. Because when when you're emotionally attached to a specific result, it means that you're not able to have peace of mind with the process itself. Right. Right. And so So yeah, it's it's really just a, you know, it's understanding that to the degree that you're able to provide value to the marketplace, you're going to receive in and that is, there's nothing that takes faith in that way to think oh, well, you know, I have to have faith that that's going to happen. No, I'd say it takes more faith to think that you're going to do well, if you don't provide value to others. Because no one's buying from you unless you're, you know, providing value to them.
Bob Burg 15:52
And you kind of put Joe in that position. He's, it's not whatever he's doing there isn't working. Right. And you talk about the real estate lady later on. Yeah, that's giving that speech, she went through that same journey, you know, she, she learned to every closed and they weren't all working. So, you know, it's, you know, give this give this a shot, because it's much better.
Emily Lane 18:16
What for you is maybe one of the bigger surprises in your lifetime, that resulted in this approach of being value focused first,
Bret Schnitker 18:26
besides selling millions and billions of books
Emily Lane 18:30
rule by phenomenon...
Bob Burg 18:33
I mean, you know, it's how I built my business anyway, you know, before the book came out. So to me, it's, it's really it's a natural thing. And I think, again, it was from watching my parents, and just seeing that, that so to me, there really wasn't any other way. And then when I again, as I got into the business world and saw people doing things, and yes, sometimes they could do things that weren't necessarily right and get quick results. And oftentimes, they they didn't either, but it was, but whether they did or not, it was never sustainable. But the people who did things the right way, their results were often quicker, and they were sustainable. But the big thing was, you know, that I just noticed, again, those patterns of people who did things the right way, were the ones that not only were more financially successful, they were happier with themselves. And so I just kind of saw life as being you know, like that. So I don't think it was a surprise that you know, that you build a business that way it would seem to me it would be harder to build a business some other way. But I also, you know, while John and I were very confident that the book would have a market. You know, I don't think you can ever see when something's going to be really, you know, when something's going to take off like that, which it did. And it was really aside from John's wonderful storytelling. It was the fact that so many people got behind it, who when they read it It wasn't anything they needed to know. It was just simply something they related to, you know, and so we got our first or our early adopters, our first adopters, if you will, we were getting lots of emails from them saying, Yes, this is how I built my business. This is how I did that. But nobody believes me. Right? Because the people working for them. Were, you know, we grew up with the same TV shows and movies that we all saw that paint the the successful business person as the ruthless, horrible, you know, whatever. And again, doesn't mean those don't exist. Of course, we live in the real world different-
Bret Schnitker 20:35
I bought a few cars from a few of those guys.
Bob Burg 20:39
You know what, but But you know, what, though, the the automobile salespeople who are the most sustainably successful and really, really do? Well? Those are the ones that their customers absolutely love and adore. And not only buy from them every, you know, the few, but they refer everybody to them, too. So yeah, sure. Sure. Yeah,
Bret Schnitker 20:59
absolutely works in every case, I'm going to take a little different approach here, because I'm sure you get these questions. You know, we, we live in a broken world, the world can be crazy at times human beings are messy. You know, is it possible to over give? And how do you protect yourself from being taken advantage of, you know, Are there signs that you're giving in the wrong place? This has to be questions that you get. Yeah,
Bob Burg 21:23
and I appreciate those questions a lot. So I don't think it's a matter of of giving too much or, or because remember, when we talked about giving, we're talking about providing value to others, it's charging and giving appropriately. Okay, so, so So let's look at this in a couple different ways. One is, again, when we talked about value being in the eyes of the beholder, we need to make sure we're giving value in a way that that other person sees it as being a value. Otherwise, it's either worthless or even counterproductive. Okay, so we have to focus on that. And that goes back to again, asking questions and knowing what that person. Okay, but here's another thing. Can you be? I think a part, you know, part of your question Bret was, can you be taken advantage of by being a Go Giver, right? First, yes, because anyone can be taken advantage of, you know, people who are people who are con artists can be taken advantage of so anyone can be taken away. So the quick answer is yes, anyone can be. However, if you are someone who considers yourself to be a giver, okay. And you find yourself constantly being taken advantage of as a pattern. I'm not saying every so often, I mean, we earn beings unless we never leave our houses that at some point, it's going to happen. I'm talking about if someone finds themselves as a pattern being taken advantage of, I'll just first say that, if that's the case, you're being taken advantage of not because you're a given person, you're being taken advantage of. Because like that, because you're doing things in a certain way, that is creating the environment for people to take advantage of you.
Bret Schnitker 23:07
Very interesting.
Bob Burg 23:09
So why would this happen? And it's it's almost always by I'd say always, on an unconscious basis, no one gets up in the morning and says, Hey, I wonder if I can find someone to take advantage of me today. Someone may not feel emotionally worthy of not being taken advantage off. Again, that's unconscious, or they may get some kind of payoff from it. And again, it's always unconscious. I can't stress that enough. It might be you know, that the payoff is well, it gives me an excuse for not doing everything I need to be successful. Yeah, oh, he or she would be successful. But the poor person, oh, he's being taken advantage of, or maybe there's a payoff in terms of attention, negative attention. Oh, so and so there's so good, but they're always being taken a bit. Again, I'm not saying that's the case with anyone. But there's always always a payoff, even though that and that payoff is unconscious. So my suggestion would be that if someone sees themselves and who's listening to this and sees himself first, there's no judgment there. It's just, you know, we all grew up according to different beliefs, circumstances that have happened, the tools that we have or that were given to deal with things. So the first thing is just understanding if that's you, first, congratulations for realizing that because, you know, a problem that has not been acknowledged cannot be cured, right. So the first thing is, you know, you accept that right now that that is the pattern that you've had, then you say, Okay, why is that? Why is it that I'm always putting myself in that position for that to happen? Okay. Then you start questioning premises when things are happening, or you feel like you're about to say yes to something that you shouldn't, or that you're about to ask, Why am I doing this? Especially if I kind of sense that there's something about this, it's not quite right. Why am I doing it anyway, what in my past has caused me to, you know, and by the way, there's nothing wrong and everything right about seeing a professional counselor about that, too. And really getting into, you know, the reason for that, because none of us should live a life where we're being taken advantage of on a constant basis. And it's not joyful. And it's not something that that you know, is helpful or productive, and in any way. Also, you know, some people think, well, if you're a Go Giver, you've got to say yes to everybody, and you've done it. No, it's not what being a Go Giver is about at all. In fact, as a Go Giver, you tend to be very, very successful. And as such, you've always got people ask me to do things. And you know, no one has the time, the energy, the bandwidth, the desire, or whatever, to do everything that people ask them to do, it's not always appropriate to do so. And it's not. So you've got to be able to say no, a Go Giver must be able to say no, but to do it in a way that honors the other person, as well as honoring their own boundaries. Would you like me to share a quick way to do that?
Emily Lane 26:20
Oh, yes,
Bret Schnitker 26:20
of course, that'd be great.
Bob Burg 26:21
let's say you are asked to serve on a committee. Okay. And it's, it's something you just you really don't want to do for whatever reason, you just don't want to do it. Okay. And so again, there's nothing self sacrificial about being a Go Giver, you know, so unless it's a life and death situation, no, if you don't want to do it, you shouldn't do it. So now, how do you say no? Well, there are a couple of ways that have been taught that I think are a bit counterproductive. I'll just share those right quick. One is, you know, well, no, is a complete sentence. I get what they mean, when they say that what they mean is you shouldn't feel compelled to say, Yes, I write I understand that. I agree. But to say no, is a complete sentence. No, there are a few things wrong with that. First, it's just rude. I mean, imagine someone to ask you, they, you know, they obviously they respect you, they want they ask you to serve on this committee. Know, well, that's complete sentence, but it's not a really good complete sentence, it also is going to cause them to probably feel himself, they did not ask you to do anything again, which, you know, you may want to have the doors open to, but also it probably and hopefully would go against your core values of of treating people with respect and kindness. So I would say that's not a good, good way to say no, then there's the old will just tell like a little kind of harmless lie, like, I don't have time. The problem with that is first, it's not that you don't have time, it's that you don't want you don't value doing the thing, as much as you'd rather not do it, which again, is fine. But if you say I don't have time, that other person who hears this excuse all the time, is probably going to give you a compelling reason why time is not an issue, then you're really stuck. Now, you either have to admit that you are fibbing, which you know, isn't really good. Or to save face, you've got to, you know, take the gig. Or when you say you don't have time, they say okay, that's okay, we're going to be doing it again in six months, I'll get back to you then. So you've just
Bret Schnitker 28:20
or you say you're currently in a coma this? No comment came from your mother.
Bob Burg 28:26
Right? So So I think doing those are just not kind of the way you want to go. So I have a very simple way to do it. And when people practice this, it is absolutely game changing. And it's simply this again, they asked you to serve on a committee, which you really don't want to, and you simply say, thank you so much. While it's not something I'd like to do, please know how honored I am to be asked. And that's it. So what you've done is you said, Oh, thank you. Or you could say, you know, thank you so much. So you've, you've thanked them. While it's not something I'd like to do or Well, it's not something I'd like to take on or however your your style is. While it's not something I'd like to do. So you're letting them know you're not going to be doing, please know how honored I am to be or you could say please know how grateful I am to be asked again, whatever you're comfortable with. What you didn't do is you didn't give them an objection to hang on to that they would that they can then answer. Okay, you just politely kindly and with honor, let them know that is nice as it was free to ask. It's not something that you're going to do. Now, by the way, there are times depending upon the relationship you have with that person and the circumstances that yeah, you do need to say maybe why you can't do it, you know, again, as long as it's something that you really can't and that it's it's not something they can come back to, you know, but by and large No, you don't have to just you use those words. Thank you. I you know, well it's thank you so much. Well, it's not something I would like to do. Please know how grateful are please know how honored
Bret Schnitker 30:04
sounds wonderful.
Emily Lane 30:05
Yeah, handling that kindly honestly. Absolutely. Yeah.
Bob Burg 30:12
And yeah, that's the Go Giver way the say no.
Emily Lane 30:18
One of the things I, you know, I've read your book through many times, just sometimes for that little refresher and over the weekend, we reread it also in just wanting to make sure we refreshed for the conversation. And there's two points in the book that every time I read it, get me like, I like I get teary eyed. The first point is receptivity, like being receptive to the good things coming your way. And then of course, it's when it all comes home. Yeah, full circle. So, you know, I is receptivity one of the harder laws for people to adopt. Do you have advice on how, how? How to be receptive to those good things?
Bob Burg 31:11
Yeah. And yes, that's the most difficult one for practically everyone. And there's a good reason for it. I'll share in just a moment. So first of all, the law of receptivity, which says, the key to effective giving is to stay open to receiving simply means this, it's understanding that yeah, you breathe out, you also have to breathe in. It's not one or the other. It's both you breathe out carbon dioxide, you breathe in oxygen, you breathe out, which is giving you breathe in which is receiving, giving and receiving are simply to sit there, you know, they're not opposite concepts. Actually, there are two sides of the very same coin. And they work in tandem. But here's why it's so difficult for so many. The world around us gives us an absolutely horribly negative message, about prosperity, about abundance, about business, about money. Right, we see it, we hear it from everywhere. And so this gets into people's heads the conscious shore, but more insidiously, the unconscious. So people from the time they're, you know, born a lot of times from a combination of upbringing, environment, schooling, news, media, television shows, movies, popular culture, cultural mores, they hear all these negative horrible anti prosperity messages that can really get to someone. And so if consciously, you're taught, you know, so let's put it this way. If you if you watch any really popular TV show, or especially movie, you'll notice there are two major characters types represented. There are the good people who are always struggling. And they're poor. But they're honest, and they're happy, right? But they're always being put down, pushed around, stepped on stepped over taken advantage of by who? The evil rich people are greedy, and awful and horrible and have no values and just want to hurt people, right? Well, this is everywhere. Yeah, we hear these messages all the time from all over. So you think about a person who grows up and is taught, you know, honesty, kindness, treating people well, right? But they think unconsciously, that to make money and do well in business, you've got to be ruthless and horrible and step on people, right? So they grow up, and they start bringing value to lots of people and they start to bring in and put themselves in a position of bringing in a lot of money, and prosperity and abundance and happiness and all these things. But the unconscious which we know in a war between the unconscious and the in the conscious, the unconscious is always going to when the unconscious says Well, wait a second, if you're doing really well financially, if you're making a lot of money if you're well, you must have done it by stepping on someone's toes or being dishonest or being right. Again, this is in this is just you know, this is society. So my suggestion is this couple things one is make a study of prosperity. There are people out there like Randy Gage, the late Bob Proctor, David Nagel, a woman named Ellen Rogen, Sharon Lechter, Ken Honda, all these great people who speak and teach on prosperity consciousness. They write they blog they post they speak, they have video, you know everywhere, study them, study prosperity, and get those good messages in tea. remind and you'll notice 99.9% of what they talk about is not the How to it's more the how to, to, to to get past all those, those unconscious blocks, messages that keep that prosperity and goodness from coming to you. The other is begin to again. You've heard me say before question premises. So when you hear something when you hear someone say, well, millionaires or billionaires shouldn't exist, right? Ask yourself why, what? What's the premise there? How does how does that how does having millionaires and billionaires hurt people hurt others? Or? Or does it does it maybe help people. Now, if that person, again, keep going dig deeper if that person made their money by dishonest means, while they should be in jail, of course. But if you really do a study, you find that most people who are millionaires and billionaires made their money by creating something that other people wanted to buy. So everyone got served in the process, right? Everyone benefited and they earn a lot of money. Okay. But with that money, not only is it money that they have, but because they employ a lot of people in those people are earning money that they can then go take and they can spend it the other stores in town and those people have a job because there's people are spending money at their stores, and they can feed their families and they're feeding their families and, and the and the money, they have invested other people. Right, and it helps. So again, oh, you know why? There's a woman was telling me that she and her husband, were taking his gosh, was it his brother, or it was somebody that the husband knew. But anyway, taking him through a neighborhood and it was a ritzy part of town. And they went, they went past a really, really nice mansion. And the young man said, Oh, I wonder what that person had to do to get that house, right, like another day? And she said, well, she's a Well, let's look at it another way. How many people did that person have to serve? Directly or indirectly, in order to get that house? Right? So check our portlets check our premises and ask why we believe these things? Who did we learn it from? Who did they learn it from? And Right, right. So then start building on your small successes. So when somebody gives you a compliment, assuming it's an appropriate compliment, right? So rather than just going reflexively going, Oh, no, no, no. Instead say, Oh, thank you. Sorry-
Bret Schnitker 37:45
We all do that. Yeah, right. So strange. Instead,
Bob Burg 37:48
you know, thank you so much, or someone holds the door open for you and says, Oh, no, no, I couldn't since it's very kind, thank you. Right, build on your small. So allow your foot and you know, start to build your receptivity muscle, right. You know, when you when you get a little bit of money coming in, you know, say thank you, whether it's thank God or thank the universe, or however you understand life, and say thank you, right? When you get more, so again, you're practicing receivers. So it's like the person who wants to lift 300 pounds, they don't start by lifting 300 pounds, if they haven't done it before, they start with 50 pounds, and then 60 and 70, and 100 and 150. And they build, you know, they they build up. I
Emily Lane 38:31
like that there's a there's actually a few things there. So it's, you know, you are practicing that receptivity muscle, but there you're showing this sign of appreciation. Yeah, but you're also you know, oh, shoot, I just lost my see this is how new of a concept it is for mm losing my train of throught
Bob Burg 38:52
Great point about the gratitude aspect. Gratitude is a huge part of prosperity. We just cannot be prosperous Without gratitude.
Bret Schnitker 39:00
I don't want to give away too much of the book. But there was a amazing point in that book. That I think you teared up a little on you were pretty emotional through this area. So this is struck home for you.
Emily Lane 39:12
Grab a tissue.
Bret Schnitker 39:13
Yeah, be careful. Brace yourself for the humidity. But there was this comment talking about nature. And how human beings expel carbon dioxide and plants bring it in and therefore expel oxygen and there's this kind of natural giving and receiving. You talked about the inhalation and exhalation and keeping to exhale, exhale in one port. But that one kind of visual element I thought was so amazing. In to help me overcome because it is uncanny. I'm the one guy that's like, no, no, no, I'll hold the door for you or, you know, don't say that and you feel uncomfortable when you get a complement and, you know, maybe I need counsel. Yes. But, you know, it is just built into our nature that way. And when I read that one kind of visualization, I was like, Man, that is brilliant. I kind of get it.
Emily Lane 40:13
Yeah, there's this symbiotic nature.
Bret Schnitker 40:16
Right? Yeah. The symbiotic
Emily Lane 40:17
Yeah, it was pretty amazing. Yeah, I know what it is to it's also looking at through things through a positive lens. So it's, you know, when your, your example of somebody going well, what did they have to do to earn that? It's, it's it's not with, not through lens of, of negative curiosity. It's more because they've writable things for others. So looking through this positive lens, I understand that this book was a collaboration and, and I haven't had the chance to meet your writing partner John, David, Mann, what would you say are some of the, the yin and the yang to your relationship? The how, how did that collaboration work? So well together?
Bob Burg 41:06
Well, so I met John. Gosh, I think it was in the late 1990s 1900 990s. Hundreds. Very, very old, we bring a lot of ancient wisdom to the the early 2000s, I'm not sure but I was the he was the editor in chief of a magazine I was writing a monthly column for. And even back then, the people in his world and his niche, they knew he was just a brilliant, brilliant writer. And our running joke was that, you know, he, he'd edit my articles, my column, and he'd send back notes. And he was always so polite about it, and so kind and he said, Well, I took this here, and I cut this, and I put this here is that okay? Well, you know, whatever. And the running joke was, it was every month, I'd write back and say, John, not only is it okay, you write my stuff better than I write my stuff. And so, so when I had the thought about, you know, because my first book was called endless referrals, and it was about how to build how to cultivate those relationships that were right. And so I had wanted to put it in a story form, because I always loved reading business parables, and I love how stories connect with people on a deeper level. Finally, after I got to know John for a while, this is the guy who I want to write this with. And I asked John, if he and I told him about this idea. And would would he be the lead writer, storyteller, and so forth. And so it's really interesting. He and his back then fiancee, now, wife, Ana, they were in there, they live in Massachusetts, but they were visiting her mom in the Tampa, Florida area. They drove over, they took like a four hour drive a one afternoon, and we had about a three hour dinner and just discussed the idea of the book, what it would be about how we saw Dayton form and so forth. And it was still a few weeks later, because he was still very busy. And he said, you know, he said, I think we've got something here, let's let's do this. So it really only took us a few months to write it. And that's why because, again, believe me, John was the lead writer. It was his. And so it didn't take long to write. The thing that took a long time was was through our agent finding a publishing house because we got turned down by 24 publishing houses over the course of the that first year. And it
Bret Schnitker 43:28
was another good lesson about perseverance. Because yeah, sold millions of these. And yeah, it
Bob Burg 43:33
was a 25th one. Portfolio Books, which is an imprint of Penguin Random House that finally said, yes, it may turn out to be such a wonderful publishing partner. And they've just been amazing. And so everything worked out exactly as you know, as it was posted. And
Bret Schnitker 43:50
I will tell the audience, you know, I'm that typical entrepreneur that is working all hours and always says, I don't have time for anything even good exercise. But the great thing about this book is that it's much like a TED talks in book form. It is this perfect length that anyone can sit down and read this book. It's entertaining, it's informative. And before you know it, you've read it, you walk away, and you're, and you're like, Wow, this is really good. So for those of you that haven't heard of the book, or think you're going to be investing months reading at it is a perfect length. You can do it in an evening even, you know,
Bob Burg 44:35
I've got to tell you a fun fact and, and thank you for those very, very kind words. So So aside from the other books in the series, because there are four books that John and I did in the Go Giver series together, he and his wife because now Ana is his wife, not fiance and they've married for like 15 years now. John and Ana wrote a book in the series called The Go Giver marriage. I was not involved in this one. I They asked me they, but I'm not married. I thought, you know, there's a little lack of credibility, you know? And so I said, No, you guys take this one. And they did and that's on his wheelhouse because she did that kind of counseling. And they wrote a beautiful story.
Emily Lane 45:14
Oh, gosh, okay, so and so or to add to the queue, and so,
Bob Burg 45:18
but they're, they're just a fantastic couple. But John has written he's co authored books with tons of people. Now he's got like, 50 books out there, including a series of murder mystery series and everything. He's amazing.
Emily Lane 45:32
So you have-
Bret Schnitker 45:33
That would be the go killers. Yeah.
Emily Lane 45:40
You have a whole host of books behind you. What among those that are on yourselves? What is one that you pull out and share with everybody? Yeah,
Bob Burg 45:52
so my, my home is I like to say it's comprised of books with some scattered furniture. So you know, there's, there's so many it's, it's hard to think of just one I would say. One of my, one of my favorites is peace, power, and plenty, which was written back in I think, 1910 or 1909. I think this one was by Orison Swett Marden, who was the original founder of Success Magazine, and is often credited by people as the, you know, progenitor of the post modern personal development movement. But you know, the even the title piece for inner peace, right power, again, not power over others power over ourselves, and then plenty, which is prosperity. So three of my favorite topics, but it just such a beautiful book, and it's a first edition. I couldn't even take notes inside. I just took notes on the, the yellow stickies, and
Emily Lane 46:56
yeah, I see all those sticky notes, but there's plenty there, which tells you there's plenty of peace of power. Yeah, oh, that's great. Um, before we wrap up, I one more question for you. If you were going to give your younger self a piece of advice, what would it be?
Bob Burg 47:18
Oh, you know, this is this is an easy question. For me. It really is. Because I think back to let's say, you know, 20 year old Bob Burg. And if I got if 66 year old Bob Burg got to speak to 20 year old Bob Burg. It would it would sound something like young Bob Burg. Shut up. Stop talking. You don't know anything? You think you do? You're absolutely positively sure you do. But as Mark Twain is credited as saying whether or not he actually said this or not. It's not what you don't know. That gets you into trouble. It's what you're absolutely, positively sure you do know. That just ain't so. So much of what you're sure is so ain't so listen more.
Bret Schnitker 48:02
That's awesome. Perfect.
Emily Lane 48:05
That is absolutely perfect
Bob Burg 48:07
Hopefully 20 year old with Listen, Bob Burg would listen. Probably wouldn't be
Emily Lane 48:11
Be talking over 66 year Bob Burg
Bret Schnitker 48:13
Em was also excited to hear that you're writing partner also played the cello?
Emily Lane 48:18
Yes, Is he still playing?
Bob Burg 48:20
I don't think he really does. But yeah, he was, you know, when he was a young kid, I mean, he was already that you know that good at and his father was a virtuoso and conductor and, and everything. So this is funny. So my latest book was a book on sales called streetwise to sales wise that I wrote with a guy named co author with a guy named Jeff West, a great friend of mine. And Jeff. Played, studied music that that's what he went to originally school for before he got into sales. And he's a he's a magician, magician, a musician.
Emily Lane 48:55
He's a magician with his music
Bob Burg 48:57
magician, with his music. And so yeah, I seem to, to get around and co author with people who are musically inclined. And I'm totally not, you know, when I sing in the shower, the neighborhood cat screen. So you know, it's like,
Bret Schnitker 49:11
we should allow you to talk about your seminar that you've got coming up in September. For those that read it. Is that still open? Is there still open spots for that seminar in September?
Bob Burg 49:22
Yeah, we just got through with our last one a couple of weeks ago. So we're now promoting this one. It's called it's called Sales Wise Live: Sales Mastery. And it's a it's an event we hold it a very elegant hotel called The Ben in West Palm Beach, Florida. And it's really for entrepreneurs, salespeople and leaders who are already successful, but they want to take their business on their success to that that next
Bret Schnitker 49:49
level. Where can they find that? Is that on your website? Or yeah, actually,
Bob Burg 49:54
they can go to saleswiselive.com and I'm gonna spell it out because it's a little hard to S A L E S W I S E L I V E .com.
Bret Schnitker 50:09
Great.
Bob Burg 50:11
I put in the studio chat there as well. Yeah, so we welcome people to check that out.
Emily Lane 50:17
We'll make sure to also have a link to your website for this wonderful book, The Go Giver, to make sure and that our audience has an opportunity to quickly find this masterpiece. It's just been a real pleasure. I can't tell you how, how fun this has been when I shared with our team that we were going to have this conversation today. So many of their faces lit up, because it really is for our team here. Everybody really values, your your philosophy
Bret Schnitker 50:49
and the impact you made on Emily. I mean, it was the first time I ever heard her be speechless, and then go screaming. So with excitement that you are going to join us you have been a hero of hers for as long as I've known her,
Bob Burg 51:03
I don't-. Wow. I'll just receive that with gratitude.
Bret Schnitker 51:08
Just take it. Yeah.
Bob Burg 51:12
Please know it means a lot to me. Thank you.
Emily Lane 51:14
That's great. Thank you. And thank you for joining us today. Don't forget to subscribe to stay apprised of upcoming episodes of Clothing Coulture
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