Emily Lane, Bret Schnitker
March 29, 2022
Emily Lane
Welcome to Clothing Coulture. I'm Emily Lane.
Bret Schnitker
I'm Bret Schnitker
Emily Lane
We speak with experts where we explore the global dynamics that shape trends in the fashion industry,
Bret Schnitker
brought to you by Stars Design Group, a global production and design house with over 30 years of industry experience.
Emily Lane
Welcome back to another episode of Clothing Coulture. Today, we are going to be talking about something that is near and dear to my heart. So important in and any industry, but absolutely in the apparel industry, marketing.
Bret Schnitker
but I'm excited because I get to ask the question, because I really don't have the answer. That's the fun part.
Emily Lane
Well, I think marketing is always important. But I think in this time where things are, you know, consumer behaviors are dynamically changing. We've had a lot of people in the industry, very invested in brick and mortar and are trying to find new ways to reach their audience moving to more online environment, this is becoming a greater challenge, how to break through the noise and just how to stay relevant. So, I think that this is a good subject retire great.
Bret Schnitker
You've summed it all up, I don't need to ask any questions. In hanging with you and going through all of these things that you've mentioned, personally, for Stars Design Group I've been amazed at again. I've been in the industry for a long time in the apparel industry, and a lot of things that I think are just easy, because I've done it so much. It's an interesting take to look through your lens and understand kind of the aspects of marketing, and it just seems to be moving to rocket science, where I remember, years ago, someone wanted me to get into the printing business. And I was like, there's no way. I do all my decisions on my iPhone or my iPad, why would I want to be in the printing business? So, you just see this evolution that's occurred in the printing business? What is there a future in the printing business with so much noise online? Are you seeing anything happening in that regard?
Emily Lane
In printing? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I think that it's people remain tactile the apparel industry, it's a tactical business. And I think the same thing is happening in the world of marketing. I do think that people enjoy getting these gorgeous catalogs on beautiful paper with gorgeous imageries sent to their doors, and it gives people a way to connect with their audience.
Bret Schnitker
That’s one of the things I've seen change used to be printed on, I don't know, toilet paper, rags, barely be able to hold it together. And nowadays, it I mean, they look like something you'd put on your coffee table, or whatever. I mean it's kind of amazing. And I think taking a break from the electronics and be able to look back and tactically turn some pretty paper and look at great images. Ultimately, I guess we go online and order in any way. That's the evolution. But I, it's kind of wild. So, let's talk about how does one get through all the noise? Because everyone wants to know the answer to that.
Emily Lane
I kind of want to kind of maybe transition that conversation from this whole topic of printing, because I think that the same principles apply, no matter if we're talking printing, if we're talking digital, no matter what the format is.
Bret Schnitker
Printing space, like dried up, no one, you don't get junk mail anymore, right. When you move to an online environment. I mean, you're bombarded. How does one weed through decisions on what engine to market on? And how do you how do you get visibility?
Emily Lane
I think regardless of the of the format in which you're marketing, I think it really comes down to your message and authenticity. Authenticity is on the rise, hallelujah. People want to really connect with a brand that they're getting engaged with, if they're buying product or they're following they want to know that the values are aligned, and that they're telling a story. That's true that this isn't just, we're not just throwing a sustainable message out there, but it's really an empty message.
Bret Schnitker
So Mad Men is dead.
Emily Lane
Yeah, the marketing world isn't as sexy as martinis in the afternoon and coming up with the next great bright idea might get you a like on Instagram, but that's about it. I If it's very important to connect with your audience in a real, true, authentic way, make sure that you're consistent with that messaging. And whether you're printing a catalogue and sending it to your client base, or you're putting images out there on social media, or you're doing some sort of email campaign or, or, or, you need to make sure that the message that you're delivering really connects with your audience. That's how you break through the noise. Everybody's getting the, you know, the Black Friday deals,
Bret Schnitker
Junk mail via spam.
Emily Lane
Yeah, so staying true to who you are, and really taking the time to map that out? I think that's a common problem that brands and new companies face is they know what the product is they want to deliver, but they don't take the time to really explore how they're different in them in the market, what makes them unique? What is their DNA, what are the 10 words that really sum up their values? What are the words that really sum up their product, and the difference is taking the time to really dive into your mission and value statements, and really, who your audiences and putting that to words, and then embracing that, in all of your efforts moving forward is absolutely essential in crafting an authentic marketing strategy.
Bret Schnitker
We've seen this ability online to deal direct to consumer, we're talking about this multi-channel approach where, in the old days, you take big advertisements out in the newspaper, I'm old, so I can talk those days. And it would cost a ton of money to establish brand equity. Therefore, there weren't a ton of brands in the industry today, we're seeing this flourish of boutique brands. We've talked about it a couple times, because they feel like they have this direct access to the consumer. And you've talked about this authenticity of message, etc. So, you have the authentic message, you have this great kind of niche, you feel like six is existing in the business? How and what choices to make to with other people that have that same kind of deal? How do you get through the competition? What platform without plugging particular platforms? I mean, is it that you post it and they will come? You end up being page 1500, right, of all these relevant stories? What some advice that you can give or prepare people for is they kind of weighed down this road with this authentic message?
Emily Lane
You need to have realistic expectations about the fact that this is not an overnight thing that there isn't that one genius who has that magic line. And boy, you run that one campaign in the newspaper once and everybody's going to come running to you. It's just like in the in the garment business, just because you build a beautiful dress, doesn't mean all the people are going to come storming into buy that dress. I certainly wouldn't. Yeah. But it's you know; it's the same philosophy applies. I mean, you have to, understand that it takes testing.
Bret Schnitker
What do you mean testing?
Emily Lane
So, putting an ad out there alone isn't enough to, to convert, okay, and so you, you really need a process of testing multiple messages.
Bret Schnitker
The testing thing, AB testing, I like the sound intelligence sometimes. So, I'm going to throw out marketing phrases when you give them to me.
Emily Lane
AB split testing is really interesting. It's actually been a process that's been in place for well over 100 years. It's brilliant marketing. Now the internet was around that was it was before the internet actually started out in newspaper, as a call back to your statement earlier. So, Claude Hopkins, the creator, the writer of scientific advertising, learned that he could use advertising and the AB split testing method. It was a much longer slower approach in the in the days of newspaper, but he would take an ad and test it week after week to see how the results varied.
Bret Schnitker
Wanted Jesse James 5000, nothing happened. Raise it to 10. And the guy
Emily Lane
found, right. Usually, it was more coupons. It was coupons. So, take for example, a soap company, so he'd run an ad, that would be buy this soap, it'll make your skin feel soft and smooth. Okay, all right. And then you know, the ladies who would buy this opened come and bring their coupon, then they'd run another ad that would say, buy this soap, and I'll make your skin glow and shine. So even test different messages use different images. And they would measure those results, how many coupons came back with this code versus that code. And from that refined their message.
Bret Schnitker
I really want to glow and smooth. And that wasn’t one of your choices.
Emily Lane
Well, you just keep refining that message. Testing, right? Well, and the truth of it is AB split testing isn't we test these two things and then we're done. We've got the one that gets the greatest response. And then we stay there and rerun with that, we take that the one that was more successful, and then we divide that out and test yet other images and other taglines and other price points and other you just keep constantly tweaking on those to get to improve your results. Consumer behavior changes on an ongoing basis. So, one message is
Bret Schnitker
saying we're fickle,
Emily Lane
A little bit. So, a message that works one week isn't going to necessarily work the next. Likewise, a message isn't going to work in one part of the country, in the same way that it will in another. So, it is an ongoing testing process. And like you said, it's a science, you're constantly measuring the results of what you're doing.
Bret Schnitker
So, let's talk about support functions. It's kind of near and dear to our hearts lately. We started to get involved a little bit in this influencer marketing. So, tell me tell the crowds out there, I'm sure there's crowds at this point, this is our what fourth episode, the crowds of four, tell them a little bit about how influencers can make a difference in in this whole process that you're talking about in marketing, in my day, it was kind of like rock and roll singers and movie stars, but it's way different today.
Emily Lane
It is influencers are the celebrity of advertising these days. It's true. I think that that harkens back to a point that we were talking about earlier authenticity. And influencers have their audiences, they've connected they have relationships with their audience. And they've built their followings by staying consistent in their message. They know who they are, and the things that they're advocating for, and the look and aesthetic of their brand. They are indeed a brand. And I think that by being consistent and being authentic with their audience, they build that loyalty. Well, now if you can bring that audience base into your business, it just gives you the opportunity to kind of reach a whole new audience in a fresh way. But you've got to make sure if you are aligning yourself with an influencer, that you are selecting somebody that has a similar voice to yours. And that the message is indeed, again, I'm going to say it authentic. Yeah, there are some campaigns that have happened out there where we've got an influencer, that's got a huge following million plus followers gets typically really good engagement, over 5% sometimes you see 10 sometimes you see 15% that's extraordinary. And you should be taking a look when you're going to be engaging an influencer app, their engagement rates and so forth.
Bret Schnitker
What's our engagement rate? What does that mean? How times they're looking to get married before they do or
Emily Lane
engagement it’s, it's more if an influencer puts a post out how many people are actually liking and commenting on that. And you want to kind of track that over a series of posts and over, recent dynamic because, things change, people fall in and out of favor, people make silly decisions and, sometimes that can compromise their audience or the loyalty of their audience. They should be always kind of when you're looking at them kind of reviewing that, but it's pretty amazing at when you look at campaigns that have worked really well versus ones that haven't, there's a campaign that was done for a certain mouthwash company, that in
Bret Schnitker
Which will remain nameless, till they give us sponsorship.
Emily Lane
Exactly. And you know, pairing this influencer that again on paper looked great, but this influencer had had no experience.
Bret Schnitker
No teeth probably.
Emily Lane
That would be a problem.
Bret Schnitker
That your influencer
Emily Lane
was in a completely different space known for a completely different type of product. Her community was outraged because it seemed very inauthentic and off brand for her to be talking about fresh breath. And she's a makeup or beauty. You know, or actually it was fashion oriented
Bret Schnitker
and most of us embrace bad breath and fashion. So, we're furious when there's mouthwash involved
Emily Lane
What's interesting is that she actually got death threats.
Bret Schnitker
Wow
Emily Lane
Isn't that astounding? People are, you know,
Bret Schnitker
We live in a crazy world.
Emily Lane
Absolutely. So, meanwhile, there's other campaigns where you have that right partnership. And there's some, Macy's, Nordstrom is all these various companies have had successful collaborations with influencers where,
Bret Schnitker
which they're not sponsoring us, and you help them
Emily Lane
I Well, it's something to admire the success of these campaigns, you know, and they'll do a collaboration, you know, 8,10 styles. And those collections will blow nearly blow through overnight, if not with even in a couple of weeks. Well, that is a retailer's dream. So, finding the right influencer, that, again, is on brand you share values. An influencer, that has a clear viewpoint is really, really important. And I think it is a really exciting marketing strategy, and one that is not going away anytime soon. If anything, we're at the early stages of influencer marketing.
Bret Schnitker
Interesting. So, let's take a step back. And let's talk about when we talk to different, burgeoning brands, right, this whole boutique brand economy, we talked about the importance of brand storage, up to your point, the authenticity toward the brand, how important it is today, and the stage at which they achieve brand equity, right? People want to be part of their club, therefore, kind of embrace their brand or low going or whatever on their garments. I can see kind of these initial steps, and we've kind of just touched the surface on the science of marketing and engagement, etc. So, they've gone down some of these paths, they've started to develop this community, they've got this whole brand equity growing, what's a way to build community within their brand, how do they, once they've started to get traction? Kind of like us, we're hoping for five people. But as we're building this whole community, or a brand is building this whole community, what are some marketing things to do when we're dealing with kind of an online space? Or maybe not an online space, an overall market? How to build community?
Emily Lane
I think any company out there, today's climate needs to make sure their marketing infrastructure is in place. First, you were talking about versioning brands and brands that are you know, pre equity. And then how do we get that equity? Well, you've got to get a strong foundation in place to even get there. And so, everybody has our website, we know this, yeah. But beyond a website, there are fundamentals to making a website really, truly work for you. A website isn't just a brochure, it is actually a selling tool for you. Not just a selling tool, but a community building tool, as well. And so in order to make sure that that works the right way for you, you need some basics in place, you need a website that has at least five pages of content. And of content isn't just photos, Google can't see photos, it doesn't, look at a photo and go, Oh, this is a really beautiful dress made of this fabric. And it looks really fashionable, and people are going to want it, you have to actually have the text, it says, this is really fashionable and people want it and so you need content, you need 300 words on each page. That's just a starting place for Google even say, this exists. Otherwise, you're not even on Google's radar.
Bret Schnitker
It's a ton of sense. I could only afford four and a half pages and right then you show up and I've got more than/
Emily Lane
Now you can't even process
Bret Schnitker
Beat them back from the door.
Emily Lane
So, fundamentals that a website that has content has pages, you need actual customized SEO, SEO,
Bret Schnitker
What is SEO mean?
Emily Lane
It is one of those terms that gets thrown around a lot and people really don't. There are different explanations for it and but basically, it's the process of making sure that Google can find your website when somebody is actually searching for what they what, what you offer, and there are ways to improve your chances at making sure Google recognizes that you're there. So very basic things are customized page titles and meta descriptions. So your page title is everybody has the About Us page, the home page, well, you need to go beyond in the description of that page, which is when you're like, looking at your website, on the very, very top of the screen, you'll see Stars Design Group forward slash home, that title up there, there's you are, you have so much potential to add into that, Clothing Coulture, a podcast about the global dynamics that shaped trends in the fashion industry
Bret Schnitker
Those heard of CEO, SEO. What is SEO,
Emily Lane
SEO search
Bret Schnitker
Super excited object or what?
Emily Lane
Search Engine Optimization.
Bret Schnitker
Okay. Sounds like a fascinating podcast.
Emily Lane
So you customize those page titles to really tell Google what they're going to find on that page. Very important. It's kind of like sending up little flags to Google to say, hey, if somebody types this in, we're here, we're here, send them here. So that's important.
Bret Schnitker
And you said meta
Emily Lane
Meta description, are when you're looking when Google decides that you're worthy of that search, and puts your name up into the queue,
Bret Schnitker
oh, honorable Google.
Emily Lane
And you see, it gives you the option of the company, you'll see the titles, Stars Design Group, and then below it, there'll be a description. That description is the meta description, often, companies make the mistake of not customizing that and not making sure that it matches the page that follows common mistake. Because what happens is, if somebody is like, Oh, yeah, that's exactly what I googled. And then they click that link, and it goes to a page and that information isn't there in that manner. People get confused. They go back, Google makes note of that it's like, Okay, so now I'm not more than that digital a problem that it does, it actually says, Okay, well, that didn't work for that person. So next time somebody searches that information, I'm going to be less likely to pull it up in the queue.
Bret Schnitker
So, my mistake was for half pages and have zero paid information at all. That's a problem. Yeah,
Emily Lane
That is a problem. Got it. There are other things that improve your SEO. So, there's you having new content are added onto your website regularly is very important. Because every time you add new content, Google's like, what's this? I got to, I got to reread it. And I don't just have to read that I got to make sure I didn't miss anything. So, it rereads your entire website, making it more relevant in the Google's mind,
Bret Schnitker
How important is to be on page one?
Emily Lane
I mean, certainly doesn't hurt does that.
Bret Schnitker
I've always said,
Emily Lane
No, it is it can be hard. It can be really hard,
Bret Schnitker
I guess, on page one with one definition of a search.
Emily Lane
This is why really being you know, getting good content out there. So that way, it's less of a question on being page one, when somebody is searching something, because, if I was just going to search, podcast, you know, that's going to look at all of the various podcasts that are out there.
Bret Schnitker
But it starts best podcast,
Emily Lane
about fashion, I put that information on my website, and I make sure the titles have that information. It's going to align with the search. That happens realistically, more often than not. So that's why being very specific, having content, having regular content is really important. When it comes to engaging your community and building your community. Like you talked about making sure that you have a good conversion system set up on your website,
Bret Schnitker
Annoying thing that pops up the mix, you put your email in.
Emily Lane
That's one way to go about it. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a challenge
Bret Schnitker
To get your email in. Yeah. Want to get to the content? I keep hitting the x that keeps popping.
Emily Lane
Do you want that discount, don't you? That’s the challenge. Of course. And so, you have to be cleverer than ever to convince people to give up their web their email addresses, because everybody gets 100 200 spam emails a day. So, you need
Bret Schnitker
Does that make? I mean, the width to 300 spam emails a day. Does anybody really recall of those that come in? Is it worth it?
Emily Lane
I mean, don't you read the ones you really want to read? I can tell you
Bret Schnitker
Intentionally I doubt it's like a violent act again.
Emily Lane
I go through I probably delete 99% of the emails that come through. However, there are a couple that I look forward to.
Bret Schnitker
Emily reads her spam. So, anybody out there that wants to market to her, I'll give you her email after that you have to wait to the very end, you have to sign up, and we'll give you a discount to the podcast or something, it's already free.
Emily Lane
I think it's really important to be very caring, smart, authentic, clever, all of those things. And I know it can feel a bit like, I don't know, I know, people have this icky feeling like I don't, you know, words like conversion, and consumer and audience and sale are, you know, words that make people kind of cringe. But this is just talking about. In building community, you want to make sure that you're delivering something of value that makes them feel good about giving up their email address, it could be, it could be the behind the scenes of the podcast video, it could be here's top five trips, tips on starting your own podcast, whatever it is, give value. And then my goodness, if you are going to be one of those marketers, or companies that sending out emails, again, make sure it's one that people look forward to, because I might delete 99% of those. But boy, there's a few that I read every time they come through, because I know I'm gonna like the content. So that's really important. Stay connected in the right way by delivering value.
Bret Schnitker
Interesting. So, I know nothing about marketing of the subject. I really don't even know the questions that my asking you honestly, I think a good route way to round this out is there something I'm missing? Is there something that you know, you believe is something important for, you know, the four people that are listening to us today, to take away about marketing that I haven't brought up yet.
Emily Lane
I think we've really hit some of those core basics you've got to have your infrastructure in place. Make sure you really have clarity on your brand, the voice of your brand and messaging, be consistent, stay real, these are all important things, there's always going to be new ways to market, that things are ever evolving. We went from newspapers to TV to now this online space. Making sure that your take taking a look at the trends you know we're seeing. Tik Tok has come in and out of the conversations recently, especially in the fashion industry. And always kind of exploring what's going to be around the corner and making sure that you're taking time to learn and AV test in those. And those new of new opportunities and see what works for you and measure the results. Don't just spend money, doing some advertising without really taking a look at the metrics of it all because within those numbers, you can make better decisions about where to where to focus those marketing dollars.
Bret Schnitker
I hope in future episodes, we can talk about some of the technologies I've heard of that I don't know understand RFID and some of these other you know, as they invade our daily lives, and get us to buy more stuff. But thanks a lot. Yeah, the time and
Emily Lane
it's fun to be in the hot seat.
Bret Schnitker
Yeah.
Emily Lane
Yeah. Well, thank you for joining us. If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out we'd offer some consulting in the marketing in the apparel space and we'd love to answer any questions that you have. And we look forward to having more conversations with you in upcoming episodes of Clothing Coulture.
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