Self Expression and Inspiration with Mickey Boardman, Paper Magazine Editor

Emily Lane 00:00

Welcome back to another episode of Clothing Coulture today, once again, we find ourselves in the MasterCard Tech Hub, which is a wonderful place to be. And we've had the opportunity to meet a wonderful icon in the industry, Mickey Boardman, as we both were celebrating the Ukrainian designers. And so Mickey, welcome to our show.

Mickey Boardman 00:24

Thank you for having me.

Emily Lane 00:25

Yes, I, we thought, you know, we could be very serious and talk about all kinds of things that have centered around your career, but we thought, You know what, let's actually start where you got your start. I think we want to ask Mr. Mickey, some questions.

Mickey Boardman 00:38

Okay.

Bret Schnitker 00:39

These are really critical. I have this very good friend that might be in the room that has this terrible fashion hoarding habit. She can't throw anything away. She talks about clothing being still in her closet from her sophomore year. What the hell can I do, Mickey?

Mickey Boardman 00:54

Well, let me just tell you, very often, I regret the things I didn't give away.

Bret Schnitker 01:01

That's not helping.

Mickey Boardman 01:04

But the thing is, I think people think fashion is very frivolous or not very important. But really our clothes say who we are. They tell the world who we are, who we think we are, who we hope to be. So in a way, we're curating a collection, the way a museum curates a collection of art, we curate our closets, those of us who are interested in fashion. So it can be very hard to get rid of things. And I think, you know, Marie Kondo, whom I've never really watched her show, but I know she has the whole

Bret Schnitker 01:31

Brings people joy,

Mickey Boardman 01:32

because it brings people Yeah, it sparks joy. I believe that if there's something in your closet that you really love, that's really important to you, you should keep it. But at the same time, you need to remind yourself and I've watched programs about hoarders because I have hoarding tendencies, myself. And the problem is, I would pendulum swing, I would save everything, save everything, and then I would, the closets would be exploding, so I'd get rid of things on a whim, and then regret things. So I think you need to approach things calmly, and saying, you know, you're going to keep what you really love. But if you don't really love it, you can get rid of it. And also,

Bret Schnitker 02:08

so you're suggesting Xanax, and trash bags.

Mickey Boardman 02:11

no and possibly, but also remind yourself that you can keep the memory that goes with the clothes without actually having the clothes the same way we can have wonderful memories of people without having them actually in our lives, because maybe they were holding us back. So we got to kick them to the curb. And I like to think of it also something that really helped me is I do a charity sale every year. And we sell clothing to raise money to build schools, clinics and women's centers in India. So that's really for a good cause. So I think to myself, is it more important for me to keep this old Versace t shirt that's always been too small that I've never worn, or I can sell it for a good cause. So then ps I still kept it but I've gotten it a lot. So yes,

Emily Lane 02:51

That does make that a lot easier so with a little champagne, perhaps I can be brave.

Mickey Boardman 02:57

Because if we approach you if you approach it like Oh no, I'm a bad person. It's bad that I keep all these clothes. That's it's not going to feel like a pleasant experience. But if you approach it, knowing that you can keep what you really want to keep but knowing that it would be good for you and helpful to get rid of some things. And also it gives things another life. I've also had periods in my life loved to give clothes where like, I would be wearing a fun sweater. And someone would say, Oh, I love that sweater, I'd say here take it thinking that sort of the universe, sort of if you push something away, something new is going to come in its place. So I think if you think about it that way,

Bret Schnitker 03:29

that's almost a guarantee. That's that's almost a guarantee for her.

Emily Lane 03:35

Great advice. Okay, so maybe you can help a dear friend of mine, who may or may not be in the room, but is challenged with wardrobe limitations. You know, you talk about curating looks to tell stories about who you are and how you feel. This person is always in black and limits himself and his style to the black tee. The black sweater. I'm feeling like it's might be time to expand beyond the black.

Mickey Boardman 04:07

Yeah. Well, black is a uniform, I mean, especially in fashion. And I it's funny because I've lived my whole life been a clown. I love bright colors, sparkles, the more crazy the better. And I never understood people who were all black and then one day, I got a package from Lacoste. And at the time, I didn't own any Lacoste shirts, but they sent me a black polo shirt, and I thought that's a strange thing to send me it's I'm so clowny. But I wore it and I thought God, this is fabulous black, I sort of get it. And it was around the time that our previous President was elected and it was a bit of a dark time. So then I found myself wearing nothing but black and I only felt comfortable in black. And now it's very flattering. It's very slenderizing it's very it just makes you feel strong and comfortable. And in a weird way maybe not unobtrusive but it sort of makes you feel like you're blending in in a way If you if you like that, so um, but I think maybe we need to challenge your friend wherever he or she is to maybe there's a reward and it's somehow like if you can move beyond the black you geta free trip to Tahiti. I don't know I find something unnerving because there is magic beyond maybe even trying like dark gray or I also love navy blue. I've always said if I there was a cult that dressed the other black yes, if there was a cult that only dressed in navy blue, I would join I wouldn't care about the beliefs but because I think navy blue is so chic and looks so great on everybody.

Bret Schnitker 05:32

I think you know, we both love fashion. I've been in this space for a long time you have 10 times over, you know, but I always find it limiting you always talk about the, you know, the limitation of fashion we I feel like I'm always on the outside looking in. There's, you know, my expression of fashion as a great pair of shoes, or maybe a pair of pants, but on tops anything fashionable becomes really challenging.

Emily Lane 05:55

Because you're a bigger man in smaller worlds.

Mickey Boardman 05:59

Well, that's the irony of fashion. I mean, in so many of us, you know, here we are three fashion lovers, we're all very different. But at the same time, the fashion world can be so unwelcoming. And so exclusive in a bad way, not and I've that's always been something that's hard for me to come to terms with, because I do love fashion. But everything from when you go to a fashion show, the seats are too small for anyone with a normal butt, let alone a large one. And in the stores, you know, sell clothes that are everything is geared for 14year old models from Ukraine, speaking of Ukraine, and the average woman now I was I learned today, from the head of our panel that we did earlier that the average woman now is the size 20. In the United States, it used to be a size 16.Before the pandemic, you can find the size 20 in anything. I mean, there is a wonderful website called what is it called? Route 13 Honoré they had like or 11Honoré, I take it back 11 Honoré, and they do collaborations with designers that go up to usually size 22. But it's crazy that people can't find clothes and their sizes. It's ridiculous. It's it's bad business. It's not just a bad. It's just not rude. It's it's terrible business. And I think that hopefully designers are coming around to that. But something that was an important moment for me is I shop a lot at a store in Chicago called Ikram. And it's Ikram Goldman who used to sell Mrs. Obama, she has an incredible store incredible taste sells everything from Gucci, to Alaya to JW Anderson, the web, etc. And I was shopping there once and it's women's clothes. First of all, which I love to wear women's clothes. I don't know about you, if you could

Bret Schnitker 07:35

well, I'm going to Tahiti,

Mickey Boardman 07:36

Oh, where are you gonna wear like a string bikini on the bottom. But um, so she was saying is there anything that you'd like that you'd like to take a look at. And I said, you know, these are women's clothes. And they really only go up to size eight, I there's no way I could even think about any of these clothes. And she said, pick what you like. And I picked her sparkle top from Proenza Schouler this was like 10 or 15 years ago. And a good tailor can make anything fit any person. They sometimes have, they put panels in the side of things for me, they get extra fabric from the designer to like sort of make extra pieces. And you know, not everyone has a wonderful tailor or a store that can you know has that knowledge. But it really makes it has really freed me up to realize that nothing is off limits with the right support system and support underground.

Emily Lane 08:25

You just answered my question is how can you express yourself in a space that doesn't fit? So finding a good tailor is a great point of advice. What are some other tips?

Mickey Boardman 08:34

Well, vintage is also really great, too. And the thing as you just the thing about people who can't just go shop off the rack, we have to be more creative. And that's actually to me where the magic of fashion is, it's much it's easy to go to Prada and find something fabulous and wear it look for it except for except for us. So we have to, you know, shop vintage adapt things, you'll I have a Comme des Garcons so I have a jacket from Comme des Garcons that actually has adress, but they opened up the front of it for me so I can wear it as a jacket, it doesn't button but so that way, like if it's open in the front, it doesn't matter if I've gained 20 pounds during the pandemic or not. So I think we just have to be super creative. And luckily, we are obviously we all look great. So I mean, although I feel a little bit underdressed next to this group today, but um, so yeah, I think you just have to really sort of be creative and like I love an elastic waist, certainly on any doesn't. Exactly, exactly, exactly. I love a comfortable shoe. And you just have to for me, the thing is, the thing about fashion is you should be like I know that you looked at that dress new that I'm so excited to put on this dress. And if you get dressed in the morning and you're not excited about what you're wearing, you should go back to the closet and start over. And whether that's something that's all black or something that's sexy or something that's crazy. It should really be expressing who you are and it should make you excited to wear it and if you're not excited, something's wrong.

Emily Lane 09:55

I love that that idea of exploring beyond how the garment maybe was originally presented

Mickey Boardman 10:00

totally

Emily Lane 10:01

invent it make it your own

Mickey Boardman 10:02

totally. And the thing is, it's funny because being a fashion person people love to ask me what are the trends? What are the trends? I hate the trends. I don't know what the trends are, and I don't care what the trends are. I like sparkle. You like black you like sexy or whatever it is. And that, you know, I love a designer who has a really strong point of view, even if it's not my point of view, like someone like Rick Owens, who I think of as a vampire, like a sexy vampire. My fashion is never sexy. I mean, I'm a sexy sexual person. But I it's not for me, i's not about showing skin or projecting sex. I'm projecting fun. And 1960sLas Vegas style variety show glamour. I'm like the Supremes at the frontier hotel in 1969. I'm The Carol Burnett Show, I'm sure Sonny and Cher. So. But

Bret Schnitker 10:48

that sounds a lot of fun.

Mickey Boardman 10:49

It is a lot of fun, I will open my closet. And I think I cannot believe I have so much fun fabulous stuff in my closet. And I also look at it from in the long game where you know, I buy a few designer things every season. But I often buy things on sale or I get things vintage or I get things gifted to me. So after you know, you can't just have overnight have the wardrobe of your dreams. It's something you as we've mentioned, you curate you build. And now after 30 years of being a fashion addict, I have more things than I can even wear. So that it doesn't change

Bret Schnitker 11:22

any hope for inclusivity today any any designers or brands that you think are actually embracing that.

Mickey Boardman 11:27

Absolutely, I think there are lots of brands, I mean, let me try to think of it. As I said, I mentioned 11 Honoré works with a bunch of different brands, Diane Von Furstenberg, someone who knew who they work with Stella McCartney. And there are certain other brands that sort of just sort of are sort of looser men's clothes, hello, or bad gear than that's really more for women men, for men who are looking for larger sizes. But I think we have to sort of also demand from our designers that we that they give us these sizes, I always wanted to start, I'm too lazy. But I wanted to start a movement where we said, we are not going to shop, we're not going to buy anything from a brand that does not offer things in our size. So even whether it's Gucci, or Louis Vuitton, if they don't make anything in my size, I shouldn't buy the shoes, I shouldn't buy the handbag, I shouldn't buy the fragrance, I shouldn't buy anything. Because we all we

Bret Schnitker 12:16

that's the address. That's exactly how we interact with them.

Mickey Boardman 12:19

Totally. And the thing is, exactly, I will take anything, we'll take any crumbs that are given to us. And I think we should notice terrible, but you know, No, it's true. It's true. It's very twisted, we need to get a therapist in here to talk to us. Exactly, exactly. Make some room. But um, so I mean, I think that would be actually a really good idea to make these brands understand that and see that so.

Emily Lane 12:43

So going from being a full time editor and provocateur of Paper Magazine. Now in a transition to a new era. How are you getting your kind of creative, mischievous fix?

Mickey Boardman 12:58

well traveled for me has always been a good way to get inspired. And when I was in Kyiv in October that I was super duper inspired by that because

Bret Schnitker 13:05

Keenan said you guys had a great time.

Mickey Boardman 13:08

And it happened to be my birthday while we were there. So that was incredible. And I'm of Polish descent. So I feel like the Ukrainians are my cousins, you know, and I just feel really at home in that part of the world. And to see young, interesting people do incredible things like the designers we saw today. All are incredible, also inspiring, all world class. And there's such a history and tradition of craft and artisans doing things and in fashion and making clothes so that really got my juices going and I go to India a lot. I'm happy to travel anywhere. If you said today, let's look go to the airport. We're going to Paducah, Kentucky, I'd say let's do it. Let's find out what the cute things in Paducah are. And there's always something that can inspire you that way. And so I always come back rejuvenated and energized from a trip even if it's a busywork trip, or something that you know, vacation that I'm very active on I comeback rejuvenated and excited with life.

Bret Schnitker 14:04

I always say I'm more excited when I'm wheels up out of the US and I'm an Indiaophile I've been in India 30 years. I love everything about the country. Yeah. How did you end up falling in love with India? Because a lot of people

Mickey Boardman 14:16

it's not for everybody. It's not for everybody. It's certainly for me. You know, it's funny, because, as I said, I love to travel. And I'm not one of those people. The strange thing is the most important places in my life when New York and India, were not places that I was eager to go to like I was not there to begin with. Yeah, I never I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. And I love Chicago. I love cities, but I was happy to go anywhere. I never thought like God, I gotta get out of here. I gotta get to New York City. But I ended up coming here to go to Parsons and fell in love with it. And now I've been here for over 30 years with India all go. And if you have a business class ticket for me, I'll go anywhere and I got invited to fashion week in India, in 2007 in Bombay, in Mumbai, but I call it a lot of dude that big newspapers, the Bombay Times. So ,people, they're called Bombay. And so I went, I thought, Oh, this will be interesting. And I really as even though I like to think of myself as a pretty open minded, well educated, sophisticated person, you sort of think of India and you think, Oh, it's just poverty or you think, Oh, it's just you know, you don't really have an idea of what it is. You just think it's messy chaos. Yeah. Which it is on a level. So anyway, so I got off the plane and the literally the minute I stepped off the plane, I said, babies home, I just felt something in the air, there was just something about it. And just at that time again, that was like 2007 things have changed a lot since then, although I can imagine. Yeah, always. And so Bombay now feels very, very much like New York to me by maybe energy, and it's the hub for magazines and movies and finance and things like that. So I just completely fell in love with that. And I've always been very popular with South Asian men, wherever in America as well. And that is certainly the case there. So I felt like David Hasselhoff in Germany, you know, you gotta go where the audience wants and there's just everything about it is total chaos it makes Time Square on New Year's Eve look like Hooterville.

Bret Schnitker 16:11

I had a friend the travels, says its chaotic migration.

Mickey Boardman 16:14

Totally, totally, totally. But magic in every way. The things you see a family of five rolling by on a motorcycle, you know, teeny little matchbox car type taxis with like 25 cases of mangos on top I mean, it's just

Bret Schnitker 16:27

I was there when the gods drank milk. Did you hear that story?

Mickey Boardman 16:30

Oh, no, no, no, no,

Bret Schnitker 16:31

yeah, I was traveling with some friends. We were in Nepal. And we'd spent a weekend jumped off Himalayas on a mountain and came back into the city and a seat guard picks us up and he says if you heard the gods are drinking milk, and we're thinking, Okay, what's going on. And what had happened is there was a guy in Mumbai, every night, three o'clock in the morning, Hindu high holy time, offered milk to Shiva ceremoniously set the milk down. That night, he puts the milk up to shave his lips and the milk disappears into the lips. He brings over a you know, a priest, and he's like, you know, showed him and it disappeared. By the time we'd gotten back into Delhi, the entire supply milk supply of Delhi was gone, and vanished into stone statues for 24 hours. And after 24 hours never happened again. I literally waited in line went to a temple and did it myself. And it was I walked away shaking. I mean, you see things in India

Mickey Boardman 17:27

totally, that you can't explain. It's totally maddening and totally magic. And that's the combination I like, that's exactly the whole, you know, 90% of the middle of life. I'm not interested in I want the extremes. And that's what you're getting in India.

Bret Schnitker 17:40

You definitely do. I remember a group coming in and they're like, when do you think they will become civilized? When do you they going to become like us. I said, Oh, you're wrong. They're our future.

Mickey Boardman 17:48

They're the civilized ones. Yeah. Yeah. And I think just being in a place, there's no the experience of living in New York being from somewhere else. There's nothing like feeling like you fit in because New York was the first place really one of the first places where I felt like wow, this is I am right. I belong here as opposed to being like, everybody else is different. So something must be wrong with me. But um, and I feel that in India, obviously we stick out in India, but

Bret Schnitker 18:15

We definitely do India and China. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a movie of me breaking a building in China.

Emily Lane 18:23

You have a project that's near and dear to your heart in India.

Mickey Boardman 18:27

Yeah. I work with a charity called Citta , which is Sanskrit for illuminated and it's sort of like Aloha means a million different things. But um, and it's a friend of mine, Michael A. Daube started it who travelled to India his life as could be 10, a 10 episode podcast. He's so fascinating. But he's an artist who traveled to India in the 80s ended up stumbling on to meeting some kids on the street who were begging and went with them to the place where they get lunch every day. Thought, wow, this is an amazing operation. They take street kids, give them lunch, take care of them. And he was run by nuns. And he said to the nuns, this is so interesting. Can I be a volunteer? And they said, Well, let's take it we'll take you to our boss. They go into a little room with sort of one little table, a bear light bulb on a string, and they said, Oh, this is our boss, Mother Teresa. And he had never even heard of Mother Teresa, which is crazy to think about in retrospect. And so he was a volunteer with her for a few months, came back to New York, found a painting in the garbage, a painting in the garbage that turned out to be a David Hockney painting of Ossie Clark, gosh, sold it for $18,000 took the money to Mother Teresa and said, What should I do? She said, build a hospital in Orissa, which is the state below West Bengal, which is where Calcutta is one of the sort of the most undeveloped.

Bret Schnitker 18:27

It is.

Mickey Boardman 18:38

Tribal kind of states in India. So he built the hospital, a hospital with $18,000there and then the decades since then, he's built other clinics, hospitals and women's centers in India and Nepal. And I do this charity sale as I mentioned, and I had started doing it just because I needed to clean out some of the things in my house, and I one of my best friends owns the store Screaming Mimi's the legendary vintage store, which is on 14th street now but back in the day was on Lafayette Street. And I had given literally 20 garbage bags of things to housing work. So I do a lot of work with also. And they have thrift stores and all the font proceeds go to support people, homeless people living with AIDS and HIV. So they were tired. They had enough sparkle tops for me. So I sent it I called Screaming Mimi's and I said Laura, I have like 10 garbage bags of clothes. Do you please take them? Can I just drop them off? You could sell them do whatever you want with them. Some of them are new with tags. Some of them are from your store. And you said well, why don't we do a charity sale and you pick a charity and we'll give the money to them. So being a shopaholic ,I learned quickly that you can get the thrill that you get from buying you could also get from selling and it's actually a deeper thrill. It's a deeper thrilled to find a good home for something you really love. It sort of like being a parent, I suppose on a certain level, you're happier for your child's success. I'm happier, for that Saint Laurent hand bag that I never used to go to like a good home and make money to build a school. So anyway, so we have all the money goes to Citta. And our latest project was we built a girls school in Jaisalmer area near the Pakistan border. And it's an area desert state Yeah, it's amazing. And it's the Golden City. I mean, hello, we're going to the Golden City, because all the buildings there are made of this local stone that shines golden in the desert sun. So it's an incredible building, it was on the cover of Architectural Digest India, designed by a woman named Diana Kellogg, who's an architect from America. And it's gotten a lot of great attention. And it's, you know, in a place where almost none of the girls, girl, children are sent to school. Somehow Michael, who's spent decades there, getting to know people and becoming respected, has been enabled to convince people to send their daughters to school. So it's really making an incredible change. And it's amazing to me that, you know, I'm not a doctor, I am not a builder who can like build a build school, but I can get clothes from designers to sell to help pay for the school. So I feel like if we all just take our natural skills are what we're good at. And that could be anything, we can make the world a much, much, much better place. So and, you know, it's, it helps to me, that kind of thing helps me feel fulfilled, and nourish my soul in a way in a business that we all love. But at the same time can be there are times when I look around. And I think this is beyond a Saturday, an SNL skit. It's so ridiculous and so insane, right?

Emily Lane 22:30

Yeah, I love that idea of taking your natural skills and leveraging it into the spirit of generosity that can create great impact, even if your greatest skill is that you look amazing, totally great at curating sparkles.

Mickey Boardman 22:43

Or you know, a lot of people and you spread the word. And I have a friend whose husband loves sports, and he helps fund an intramural basketball team for at risk youth. I mean, so I'm not, you know, it's all sort of someone once said tome, well, when are you going to do a fundraiser for schools in America? And I said, Well, as soon as you set it up, I'll be the co host, I'll work the door, like, you know, it's like you have we have to sort of do what the you know, what we're called to do on a certain level. And I anytime a friend is working on anything that's important to them, and personal to them, I'm happy to support and do whatever I can help them get free venues again, I can help get free venues because I know people I can get free clothes. I can't I don't have the big money that like the big donors have. But it's the other things are just as important as the money.

Bret Schnitker 23:27

We are a global community.

Mickey Boardman 23:28

Absolutely.

Bret Schnitker 23:29

You know, wherever it is, it needs to be there.

Emily Lane 23:32

Speaking of a global community, we're meeting directly as a result of you traveling with Keenan going to Ukraine becoming inspired by the designers in Kyiv. And, of course, we've met during New York Fashion Week in celebration of those designers bringing exposure to the incredible talent that's there. What what are some highlights of what you've learned from getting to meet some of these designers? And, you know, what advice would you have, as they've had to navigate such extraordinary hardships to try and make it in this very complex space?

Mickey Boardman 24:08

Well, first of all, they could give us advice, you know, I mean, and how to survive hardship. And I think the whole world has been so inspired by Ukraine, because of who knows if it's a distrust of Russia, or just to see how Ukraine has handled this situation. And in a way they've kind of become surrogates for all of us who believe in freedom and who believe in creativity and who believe in.

Bret Schnitker 24:30

Nobody likes a bully.

Mickey Boardman 24:31

It's true. Absolutely. And so, and I just think these, I've been so inspired by these designers, and right before I went to Kyiv, and I had actually been to Ukraine 15 years ago to the Crimea, before it was annexed by Russia and to seethe palaces of the Romanovs and Oh, wow. Yeah. Which was amazing. And it's, again, a beautiful country.

Bret Schnitker 24:51

Lots of gold there.

Mickey Boardman 24:52

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm so going to Kyiv because I'm a polish to sound again, I feel like that that's my part of the world. And there was an article right before we went in the New York Times saying how Kyiv was the new Berlin, how there was a woman, a writer for the New York Times who was living in South Africa, I think at the time and wanted to travel during the pandemic. And the only place that seemed to have no restrictions was Ukraine. So she went to Kyiv almost by accident, and fell in love with it ended up staying for months and first night, she ended up at a rave in the forest outside Kyiv. So there's just something about it the same way. I said, when I stepped off the plane in India, I said, babies home, there's just something to be there in Kyiv. You just feel the energy and the creativity. It feels like a very young country, a very country, but with a very rich history and rich culture. And just so welcoming and so warm. And I mean, and again, these designers, I've been all I've been to Paris, Milan, every fashion capital, and the things that I saw on Kyiv. I was more impressed by then things I see. And you know, the other fashion capitals, so it's just an incredible place. And I think anyone everyone I know who's been has been moved and inspired by it. So I think everybody-

Bret Schnitker 26:01

Comments in the room are very, very strong.

Mickey Boardman 26:03

Yeah, absolutely.

Emily Lane 26:04

Are there other places of the world that people should be looking at right now?

Mickey Boardman 26:08

Of course, like what, like, I was just in Malaga, Spain, and they're having a moment because they're the museum scene there is really incredible. A friend of mine, a photographer Hubertus Hohenlohe, just had a show at Fundación Unicajain Malaga, which is a museum Unicaja has a bank that has cultural centers in Seville, and Malaga and a few other cities in the south of Spain.

Emily Lane 26:32

You studied in Spain right?

Mickey Boardman 26:33

I did. I did my junior year in Madrid in the 80s. And then I graduated and went and taught English for a year in Spain. So I love Spain. And, but there's the Tison museum there. There's the Picasso Museum. There's Pompidou Center. I don't know why they decided to open in Malaga. But there's sort of a lot going on in the cities really having an amazing moment. Copenhagen, I love and it's amazing. I haven't been there in a little while. But it was just the 50th anniversary of the Queen. Who's the celebrations were reduced a little because of the death of the Queen of England. But um, yeah, I also I've loved Africa, I've went to Lagos Fashion Week. I love I felt like India, it felt like the future. So I really love that. There are so many places everywhere that are amazing. Mexico is incredible. I think every country if you give it a chance, there are amazing things going on there.

Bret Schnitker 27:25

There's 135 fashion weeks or something going on or anything. I think you know, the globalization, fashion is what most excites me. You know, you'll look at the big runway shows. And it's so many times it's almost like you've been there done that. But you're looking at some of these people forged by what's happening, and it's just remarkable.

Mickey Boardman 27:43

Absolutely.

Bret Schnitker 27:43

Yeah, it's really exciting.

Emily Lane 27:45

Yeah. A very inspirational time here. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Mickey. It's been a joy to have a conversation with you. And of course, thank you for the expert advice.

Mickey Boardman 27:59

Exactly. I look forward to updates from both of your friends. On their issues. They're struggling with.

Emily Lane 28:07

Well, thank you again. And don't forget to subscribe to stay apprised of upcoming episodes of Clothing Coulture.

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