The Future of 3D Design in Fashion with Sharon Lim of Browzwear

Emily Lane 

Welcome to Clothing Coulture. I'm Emily Lane.

Bret Schnitker 

I'm Bret Schnitker.

Emily Lane 

We speak with experts where we explore the global dynamics that shape trends in the fashion industry,

Bret Schnitker 

brought to you by Stars Design Group, a global production and design house with over 30 years of industry experience.

Emily Lane 

Today, we are discussing the future of 3D design in the fashion industry. We are here with Sharon Lim, Co-founder and CEO of Browzwear. She is an absolute pioneer in the industry. Hello, Sharon.

Sharon Lim 

Hello, Emily. Hello, Bret. Thanks for having me on your podcast. Thank you.

Emily Lane 

So wonderful to have you here. Bret, you have known Sharon for quite some time.

Bret Schnitker 

Yeah, I think we started exploring 3D design about nine years ago. And I feel like that's a long time ago. But Holy smokes, Browzwear goes back a lot further than that. I feel like we were in this industry, I've heard a statistic, I can't back it up, but I think less than 2% of the industry really heavily utilize the 3D design. And, as we started working down, challenge overcoming challenges with clients, helping them visualize the result of things. We moved from kind of a 2D platform to 3D. And Sharon was instrumental in her company instrumental in doing that we explored several different organizations that were offering services to that degree. But, at that time, and still today, the interface, the understanding of that relationship between artist vision, and technology was firmly implanted at Browzwear. We feel comfortable and feel really grateful to have Browzwear as a partner in the industry.

Emily Lane 

So, Sharon, where in this space of 3D, with regards to the fashion industry, where is it sitting today? From where it started?

Sharon Lim 

Yeah, I personally have been in industry for almost 18 years. And prior to that, being with a company called Tommy, and then moving, and just seeing the change in the industry, but I think we move from first 3D for fashion is was introduced and it was very disruptive, because unlike the fast moving consumer products, other CMTG, hard goods and all, 3D was quite late for apparel simply because people didn't feel that you could touch, you could feel that, so how do you make decisions when you can't touch it. So pretty much, well the rest of the world moved on industrial engineering moved on with 3D being at the heart of all product development, design and development itself, apparel just stuck on with 2D. So that was the time that we came from a very 2D driven type of workflow, a lot of tags, sketches, and then try our best, make a lot of samples. And if it still doesn't make all the stakeholders just keep repeating the process again, and again, it's at the end of the day, it's really about communication. That's what the industry, that's what the 2D workflow was driven. However, when I came into the industry, we could see that if you replicated what the engineering industry did with 3D and brought it in, then visualization would pretty much bring objectivity to the process. And when you drive your product development around 3D, suddenly, no one's guessing. What this is all about what the word, 10 was that 10 inch, or 10 10 stitch per needle? What does it all mean? but it's moving along. And we've had to be evangelists advocate for this type of way of working of the 3D digital workflow. Because the goal is that when the industry is able to move into that, then I think what we'll have on our hand is really just a more sustainable apparel workflow.

Bret Schnitker 

I think all things work well together. Was funny we had an interview with Valentin Karabanov, I think he's a colleague of yours for many years out of Israel. And it's funny listening to him struggle from his roots of being this tailor in a tactile environment, and him working in 3D, specifically Browzwear for, I don't know, 14 or more years since 2004, I think. And him interfacing with a designer and the designer had more faith in the execution of a 3D design, going straight to the tailor shop and going right on the runway, then Valentin did as the designer, I mean, that just seems like it's a mind shift that I think our industry's got to go through.

Sharon Lim 

Yep. And I think that we are moving from the last couple years, I would call it the early adopters, where you have innovate at time of innovators, from the industries, and then to the time where there are early adoption of the industry. And now, we are really at what I call the early mass, where people have seen success on the left on the right, among the peers, and they figured it out, okay, we can do this. But we are the we are at this early phase, which doesn't mean that everyone's not going to figure this out immediately, they're still going to learn in a way through the technology itself, the software itself is plug and play, but the impact that it makes, which is where we have to plan and partner with yourself, you know, over the years as well companies like yourself, is the impact of it is something that we need to plan for the best digital, I think I call it an experience a digital product experience. All right, needs to be enhanced. But the great thing is we do see people adopting and now it's helping them to start off to start that journey to bring impact through helping them plan and understand how you get into the journey and what must always impact the business at the end of the day, you don't want to get into a software for the sake of doing a software. Because if you look at the to the 2D digital workflow, where people try to put many different things together AI, Photoshop, and all that all for the sake of communication. And in the same way. And even though the impact of it is it's not always the most positive, it was all always all the only tool they had. So, when you move into a better tool, and you still bring people through the change, I find that change management is best when you bring impact to the table for all the stakeholders. So, this is the part I think in earlier, as we reach early mass adoption, is to help people to understand the impact drive derive some goals out of that, so that then we can put a plan that stakeholders can really take ownership of and just drive it. Yeah, I mean, this is what I've seen, you've done.

Bret Schnitker 

Yeah, well, I mean, I think the industry itself is super accelerating. We talked about evolution, not revolution, that our company in Revelation tends to be bloody. But evolution can also be it has sometimes physical forces to create that evolution. And certainly, as we see COVID Oh, my God, the launch of digital conversation in all aspects. I mean, we're talking zoom today, the connectivity, the change in how we're doing business style, the way that we're communicating, design, interpretation of design has exploded, and people are starting to say, Hey, what about this digital thing? And it's funny, you go, well, I've been doing this for 14 years +, hey, I already know that answer. I think when you talk about economics, also in your conversation, that's super impactful. I say in other conversations America lives in a microwave society; we want everything fast. Well, in the old way, when we went down this process of, hey, let's sketch out a design. Let's have tech do all this work. Let's have a fit sample and another fit sample. And another, the time that it took to get to perhaps a place that you were comfortable was months. Today, if you trust the system, and input it correctly, those many months can be condensed into days, even today, and you throw in this whole additional conversation about sustainability. Everyone is talking about sustainability. One of the things that in an industry that wastes 92 million tons a year fabric and we have conversations, in this whole development process, there's a lot of fabric that goes to waste into development process before even production begins. And if you can visualize, you can have conversation around the executed item in a digital space. You're also saving a hell of a lot of waste in that process.

Sharon Lim 

That's the process the entire workflow to go from one end to the next and presents. There is so much opportunity when you start to move into digital, you start to see possibilities. Yesterday, we are a client in Europe, they and ODM in Europe. And what was interesting is that they posted how they created an athletic wear. And I'm not sure maybe it's for private label, or it's their own private label, I'm not sure. But they posted on LinkedIn on their social media and talks about how they created it. And they put it on animation. So, they will obviously visuals selling it as well. Alright, with then, if I'm not wrong, all without samples in three and a half hours.

Emily Lane 

Wow, amazing.

Sharon Lim 

How do you do that?

Emily Lane 

That's disruptive. If we could just take Valentin Karabanov deal, and only sell digital fashion, then we're good, we don't have to make anything in a factor, i we would just be sitting

Bret Schnitker 

on zoom, that's the way to go.

Sharon Lim

It's interesting. But I think that there are still gaps. What I it's once you tie any type of change, to the economic impact, there can be some longevity and continuity to keep evolution going. And I don't think change doesn't mean revolution, the truth is no that can be painful meaningful. Change really means evolution. But there are some companies that maybe because of size bit, less stakeholders involved and all that they can really bring this much, much faster and I think that's important. But there is still generally, a lack of understanding of what push really brings to the table and should lead to Alright, so some people are still at the stage where we call the DPC, which is digital product creation. And they have not really moved on from creating into more of the other purposes that they could reuse what they've created and move, you know, and then make an impact can change the way they sell change the way they really even develop and communicate. And I okay, there are two last extreme frontiers, the manufacturing and then I think with consumer engagement, but you do see activities, digitalization, or some type of technologies that are impacting the to polarize. And right now, consumer facing and manufacturing, I think that when in the next, I would say that maybe in the next three to five years, we'll see, when entirely where one end consumer, all the way to manufacturing can actually be connected. And I think that's the that is the goal, there's still some gaps. But we're heading down that direction, which is great. Because when that happens, you really can then change the way you sell digital before you make anything. And then there are really manufacturers or supply chain partners that can connect in digitally and know exactly how to make what you've presented to them. And then with IOT, AI and all that be able to quickly produce on demand. I think that is that frontier that we are leading into.

Bret Schnitker 

And I think it's accelerating for sure. I think it's an amazing, amazing future we've got.

Emily Lane 

Absolutely these are these are conversations we are absolutely having among our clients and prospective clients each day. You both spoke of earlier in this conversation, evolution, not revolution. We do know that trying times, often call for evolution, and are a very good time just to see that come about.

Bret Schnitker 

I'd like to say adversity breeds creativity, no adversity breeds technology. Today, it breeds technology.

Emily Lane 

Absolutely. And so, you know, looking at the landscape of this industry through this pandemic, companies have downsized many fashion design teams were condensed, many designers were let go as a result of the downsizing, and so I'm curious, Sharon your thoughts on the future of 3D and people, designers, perhaps looking to adopt a new skill during this time as well as, companies, now we're leaner, we need to be more efficient. Do you see a rise in adoption, due to pandemic time?

Sharon Lim 

Well, and you also mentioned gaps. That's an interesting point of view, because the education gap, has been a challenge for a long time, because schools, the technology, even though it's been around for you, for 14 years, we've talked at several times that the educational system is not really kind of fully embraced it and have teachers that can teach it. Right. All technology is really bread; I think we had the discussion when I first met you. And I said change, or any type of transformation is first about people. And then when people on board when people are changed, then they will change the way that they work, which is basically process right? And then only for that, once you decide then that's when technology really, you see the value that you create with the technology that you just embark on. So yes, it's unfortunate that COVID crisis, like COVID had to happen. But it brought about a change. As people, I think, face the crisis, the digital age, people start to realize that, hey, this is the digital age, we need to get on board with that. Now, what we can do is, I think, for us anyway, Browzwear, what we try, definitely, as soon as COVID happened, I remembered sometime last year, around this time, maybe a month, earlier March, when we saw this. And much as it's we couldn't imagine that the world was shut down in the next two quarter the way there

Bret Schnitker 

who could? Yeah,

Sharon Lim 

What we thought of was, this is an excellent opportunity to really start bringing up the learning platform to the industry to help them to learn. What we can do is to help people to learn, will there be an uprise has there been an uprise of people who wants to learn there is, and but we could foresee a bit of economic hardship. And so, when we launched the indie program, where we started giving away, we started issuing licenses to many independents who, and many of them, unfortunately, we're in the pool who lost either their job or we're on furloughed. Or graduates who really couldn't find a job at that time. So we launched this program to really help people to take this time, at least invest your time, while they invest their time. What we could do is support the change by providing the licenses for them to get learning. And then also our team was amazing. They quickly put together all the knowledge, and then did a project on and created the Browzwear University and launch it very quickly, putting the best of everything that we have together. And I meant by the best is just the understanding of how people learn. And while the trainers used to get on a roll and teach people with the best of the experience of how you learn, we put all that together the Browzwear University, launch it, I think, at the end of May, and allow people to just continue the education, I'm happy to say that, we're almost a year since we launch, and that education that has supporting the people is still continuing to happen. I'm happy to see all the uptake. And Bret, you were talking about the school system. It's not so much the system, it's it goes back again to people, it goes back again to people changing. And with all people changing, it's always I have a day job. This is the way I've been working, and I have got to keep doing because that's what I'm paid to do. And sometimes until I'm not paid to do a sudden, I'm not paid to do it. Yeah, that's when I have time to really step back. And that's when I have time to then think about how I should teach or what should I do and what we're happy with and we've had a lot of feedback also for schools that started to that quickly started to work with Browzwear, even the Browzwear University, have really assisted and help them. Bring the digital into the schools as well, that we are happy with.

Bret Schnitker 

Yeah, I think that's awesome. It's funny, every day around here, I have a situation, life is that way things just come across the table. And we have a lot of young people. I'm on the other side of the generation gap, I guess. Now young people, they're around here. And I'm like, How the hell do I fix this? And they're like, oh, let me go YouTube, but they watch some episode. And they come back like an expert, and they fix it. And I think, your team has so intelligently organized this whole Browzwear University in such a way that people are used to learning in this way with masterclasses out there and YouTube tutorials. I mean, this is a way that people are learning to do things today. And I think it's an insightful idea.

Emily Lane 

Yeah, I think it is, it is a wonderful initiative. And I know many fashion designers that have taken advantage of your Browzwear University, so I might have to do so as well. We had Stars did a very similar kind of outreach initiative, when COVID hit, we wanted to continue fostering opportunity for designers. And so, we launched United Coulture. And as a result of that, and this is a global fashion design community, and many of the designers that we've brought on board are taking advantage of your program. I'm curious, Sharon, as the world starts to shift back to normalcy, do you think that these designers will kind of remain independent? Do you think they'll get the call back to their big fashion houses? How do you see this kind of shifting the entire ecosystem of the fashion apparel industry?

Sharon Lim 

No, it's interesting that prior to COVID, I think it was 2019, I heard an online interview by a graduate of FIT. And when something like that not word for word, but the when something that. No, I don't want to I don't want to graduate and go into the bigger company. Rather I'll think about studying something on the side of my own on my own. And the question was, you are graduate? Why? Why would you go into a bigger fashion brand workable a couple of years, it's like No way, everything that is done, I've heard enough from my friends that they are not really involved in design, all they are involved in is sketching, and making coffee. All right, and that's not making copies, you know, and pinning bodies. There's no way.

Bret Schnitker 

Probably coffee it's a late night to give them copies and coffee.

Sharon Lim 

And there's no way I don't think that's what I learned I paid for my education. I'm not going back to pinning bodies. Now, that was very insightful for me to hear. I also felt that in the last in the, I think since 2010, every crisis in the last two decades, one thing I notice is it brings about a rise in the gig economy. Right? And where people start to say, well, how do I only work it's, can I democratize work. And that's what I've seen in the last two decades. So, I think, even with the current crisis, and this acceleration of the gig economy will happen. Now, this is interesting, because now we can connect it. And I think companies are also more aware of the fact that it's not about seeing people come to work, clock in clock out anymore, though those days kind of passe. So much as we may return to an economic, stable stability, more improvements in economic and I want that to happen, but I also believe that this will come from a lot of people who will be freelancing, who will be doing that type of non-traditional kind of employment contract. I do see that coming in.

Bret Schnitker 

I agree. I think you know, the old days of corporate America. I think probably misplaced thought that there was the security that you went and worked for a number of years you finished with a pension, you got your gold watch and life was there, that that kind of reality is not around for a number of years. And I think COVID brings to light, especially in designers as we've had a lot of conversation of designers. They were some of the first to be let go. They're like, hey, we're going to let you go. You know, we're going to survive and then maybe you'll come back on. They call it furlough to your point, which is a polite way of saying you're out, maybe you'll come back. And I think gig economy also answers a lot of those questions. Look, I realized I cannot depend on these big corporations to keep me employed, if things go wrong, I'm going to try to build a business to a degree myself to be able to pay my bills and build my reputation and build that notoriety.

Emily Lane 

Stay inspired.

Bret Schnitker 

Yeah, and a lot of different industries, in our industry, a lot of different companies, these designers are unknown. They build all the beautiful designs for an organization. Whatever the thing is, above the door is the brand. But there's a lot of designers behind the scenes that are creating those, and I think that's a critical deal. You talk about this new gig economy. The other thing that I think is interesting. I spoke to Lena about it, so I probably get it wrong. Because it's been a few years, my brain cells aren't what they used to be. But she was talking about the uniqueness of how you've had this kind of open arm network for Browzwear. She talked about Python language and how the ability to have this open platform created this constant thought of evolution in Browzwear like it continues to evolve with new ideas. It welcomes the community and the present new ideas, is that still continuing? Have you seen that on the rise lately, with all the different new innovations that are going on?

Sharon Lim 

I won the open platform, as we call it, which is basically putting Browzwear in a framework of openness, right, was something that we started a few years, maybe five or six years ago. But when we when we came together, when we launch Browzwear, this was always our roadmap, that this is what we will do, never play a close game. Because when you play a close game, you're playing on your own, but when you open up your arms, and you open up yourself, and you are able to put your technology open, then basically what happens is you allow for acceleration and bringing I think people tech guys into the fashion industry, I think it's not just the technology itself, but it's the fact that we actively put a team of people to basically act seek out partnership, to find people from other industries, who might be interested to come in and show them this industry bring also them to our clients to show that there is this is what brings innovation. I think this is what brought a lot of innovation to fashion. And today we have the term, someone coined the term fashion tech. Look, it was never there before. In the past when you when I first came in, and when you talk to people even up to 10 years ago, they will tell you things like fashion, oh, it's a cake. You know, I'm coming into fashion. It's a cake. Nothing's changed since Adam and Eve. And there was only one good tailor. And it's God himself that, but since then, nothing's really changed. And you hear fashion being associated like that. So, to be able to partner and bring and advocates and build a community of innovators, tech innovators were willing to step into fashion. And now there is this term, that's coined fashion tech. For me, it's just to see yet another milestone that we have cross another gap. That's been bridge. And that's, that's really very exciting.

Bret Schnitker 

So, it's a super sexy term. I think that's awesome. We have that foundation of Talon technology here. And when you when I hear fashion tech, I'm like, Yay. Because yeah, that combination needs to happen,

Sharon Lim 

So, we are continuing this whole open platform. In fact, maybe on the website, we are taking technology company, true or fake. I mean, we introduce them to fashion, we get them talking to a few people they see we give them advice, or they are tech, and then they allow them to use our technology and keep doing what, whether it's integration, whether it's embedding, they continue to do that. And then when it comes to a point when they're ready, we really bring them out through the partners program, introducing them officially on our website, or on social and even to our clients. And that I think it's something that we're going to continue anything at all we're just expanding in this a continuing to expand in this area.

Emily Lane 

Building your network. Speaking of other fashion technology, we are seeing a lot more information coming out about 3D virtual fitting rooms, augmented reality, virtual reality in this in this space. Sharon how do you see this evolving in the coming years? And is it going to become more a part of our reality?

Sharon Lim 

I think it is already. I've heard of when we brought some AR, VR online showcase platforms into the industry, of just talking to their CEO a week ago. And the uptake is, they've really experienced that uptake. And simply because people are still kind of locked down their countries, they're still on locked down. So, the best way to still present your line, and the AR, VR, it's really cool in a very massive way of showing and use, and they are seeing an uptake of their business as well in fashion. So, I think that I mentioned earlier on that there will the to polarize the two ends of it as manufacturing and consumers, so the more actually and they create the push and pull effect. So, the more different technology goes into manufacturing to bridge the gap, right towards product, and design. And the more that consumers are also engaging digitally, the more you can connect these consumers to manufacturing. We are continuing to promote technology in two ends, because we know that once they pick their uptakes, and there's a pool effect. Once people are consumers, and manufacturing, engage with apparel, digital apparel, you basically can bring them closer together. 

Bret Schnitker 

The accuracy of that rendering is just kind of amazing. Remember again this goes back a while with Lena. But she was talking about you guys doing some experimentation with the whole digital fit thing at one point and how people could walk into the mirrors and see themselves and these garments. And when we moved online, this advent of buying everything online returns are such a massive expense in the industry. So be able to know how a garment fits in a virtual space and on you. For me, I'm a Man, that's the answer. Funny thing Lena says is, outside of that dimly lit, moody, cool retail store, when you're in the dressing room, and you're convincing yourself everything looks good in the virtual space, they were seeing themselves for exactly so real, how they were, and people were having kind of an adverse effect to it. So, there's this kind of brain trying to get over. It's like, Wow, that's really how I see it. I never even thought about that. It was just, it was funny hearing Lena say that that could be a challenge for the future. The truth of this is how I look.

Emily Lane 

In that case, you can't feel it. Sometimes you can feel a garment and convince yourself well it might not look amazing, but it feels good.

Sharon Lim 

About two or three weeks ago, I was in a meeting with a big deal, one of Europe's giant e-com. And they told me that in Europe, in some countries and statistics the data that they have, is that returns almost 40%.

Bret Schnitker 

Yeah, that's insane. You don't really think it Okay, well, it's a return they take it back and do it. In the old days of retail, someone would walk in the store, you'd get a return, you put it back on the rack, and you'd sell it. In a world where Amazon runs the game, you buy it from home kind of thing. You have shipping costs back you have warehouse fulfillment cost back; you have repackaging basically, the profit of a returned item has gone on a return in most cases, especially in our industry. So that is a that is something that must be resolved. And I think with many of the things that that Browzwear brings to the table, the accuracy of visualization, with his whole open platform and the partnerships that are going on there. And with the improvement of LIDAR technology, that 3D scanning equipment, be able to really see how garments fit and having some transparent conversations about how they fit that could help that reduction in returns.

Emily Lane 

Absolutely. Another conversation Bret, you mentioned earlier how we had just had a conversation with Valentin Krabanov an incredible designer,

Bret Schnitker 

Karabanov rolls off the tongue nice.

Emily Lane 

In talking with him, he started out as a traditional designer moved into adopt 3D adoption and has now taken that one step further and is creating digital clothing that is seen in a virtual environment. Crazy I know Sharon; you've got a great relationship with him. What I would love to hear your insights as to this space of digital fashions, you know, NFT's and things of that nature. Do you see this being a viable economy and it's in its on its own?

Sharon Lim 

I say economy's changing so much. And I think we don't know what will come what will be the next thing that will take. Fashion is always something that is trend driven, right. It's always it's emoting. All right. And digital is emoting. It's starting to emote fashion in a most amazing way. All right. And I think when that happens, then you unleash the creativity that is in people, you will never know what comes next. Right? Val is I think it's this week or last week that its his second catwalk or virtual catwalk on one of the European Fashion Week.

Bret Schnitker 

It's like a Mercedes Benz Fashion Week in Russia or something.

Sharon Lim 

Right. Now, did he ever imagined that he would get there, that this would happen to him? No. But the two things that Val loves, music and fashion, and he's able to incorporate it. There's this ability to express yourself digitally today, as people thought was not possible years ago. So again, bring this whole. This is available today. Now, please go out, bring your physical self, everything about you. Just express it. And I think then see how everything will come together. What kind of economy you will bring, you will never know? But look at Val. He's stepped out and he's been in a gig economy, building his studio, working with designers, he told me that he works with a lest a minimum, I think last he told me almost 200 designers. Now you look, where do you find what an exciting job? What an exciting career.

Bret Schnitker 

He seems to love it. Yeah. I mean, he just seems like he can express himself creatively. He can fill his day with what he loves. It is an exciting conversation. It's so funny to think about with technology, how we're on a zoom call, we can download an outfit you know from Karabanov designs or whatever and wear it in a virtual space.

Emily Lane 

stay in your PJs but look like you're wearing couture.

Bret Schnitker 

I know that’s crazy America always wants to hear sure the economy. Well, once we start building in pixels, I guess we can, right? It's kind of crazy.

Sharon Lim 

They will be a space for that. In the past we see and look at today, you have key influencer on social media that are basically launching their collection. They're going to need people to help them. They talk a good talk; they have great followers on social and they love their clothes. Their clothing apparel is a way of expressing ourselves. But today, they launched their own fashion brand, when they come in. This presents a new opportunity for manufacturers, for designers for pattern makers, and this presents a new economy to work with these guys to bring a collection for them to launch, and they become the seller. So, I see. I really love the gig economy. I find it so lively. I find new opportunities. I find how people express and then how people come together to collaborate and create new business. That's exciting.

Emily Lane 

Yeah, absolutely. Well, the combination of this ever-changing landscape and the gig economy and the technology that's supporting it now. It's all truly exciting. What's before is in the future. Sharon, do you have any tidbits of wisdom or advice that you'd like to share for those who are wanting to get started and considering this technology of 3D design?

Sharon Lim 

Personally, I would say that two advice, for the corporates or for the enterprise, and then for the individual. Let’s start with the individual because it’s always about people. I would say that even people set a goal for yourself. Whatever is the reason that motivates or drives you to have to learn or to learn, just enjoyed that learning process. And then more importantly, coming from an a wealth of experience for our people, for the fashion industry, we come from a wealth of experience, whatever happened that made you force you into a change, let's put that put that aside, realize that you still have a lot of experience, learn something, learn digital, bring it new to yourself, but learn to embed it together, if you experience that way, it becomes an impact, you're not just doing it for the sake of just learning something new. But when you can bring your own experience of product development of design, what works, what doesn't work. And when you can bring it inside digital, and you learn something, and you're embedded into your own mindset and your workflow. This is where it's really, powerful. So I would say, start with that kind of a goal in mind, incorporating your experience, and embedding, learning enough to embed it into your experience, that's for the people. For the enterprise, is the reminder of that when you step into this, don't step into this thinking that here, let's give you a set of new tools right now. And then suddenly, miraculously, the 3D Digital workflow will come out. Now it takes time, takes you working with your people. And more importantly, is attach a goal to it as well. There is impact, at least address and articulate those impact, whether it's to your revenue costs, or risks, articulate this to your team of why you are doing this? Don't just tell them to do it. Because it's the new way of working? No. Why is this new way of working, going to help the company and support the company, in its revenue in its cause, and its risks, address, business and economic topics with your team so that they understand. And this drives ownership through the learning process. And this can shorten the time. I've heard so many people that over the years have told me yeah, we just get into this so enthusiastically because our company is so enthusiastic about it, we go into it, but we never changed the process. So, my bosses or my leadership is still telling me to do things the old way.

Bret Schnitker 

That over and over again. Sure, yeah.

Sharon Lim 

And, and there's no change. So, I think right now, as we get started, start with the goal, start with some impact goals in mind, and then drive it down and continue to drive the change as your people change. Be prepared to also guide or work along with them to change your processes. And then to envision that type of where do you want to go? right through to evolution?

Bret Schnitker 

Involve the process yeah.

Sharon Lim 

Yeah, evolve the process with your people, and you got to trust it. So, if you can trust, the term, today's digital twin, which basically means that, whatever you get in 3D, you got to be able to make it physically. So, if you can establish that trust, then you can basically change your entire workflow, the number of companies I've seen, that have jumped into 3D, without even this, this basic understanding, and just make all kinds of pretty things. I remember talking to this Japanese sportswear brand. It's very funny, but I spoke to the European designer of how they many years ago and moved into 3D, brought in a bunch of computer graphics studio guys to build the entire line beautifully in 3D for the international designers and all to pick and select the line. They were so happy with the process, six or eight weeks later, the samples came in from the factories. And she told me I was shocked. It looked nothing like what I thought it was when I when I picked myself and then we went into a mad scramble to make changes and all and she said that was such a bad taste that I felt that no, I can't trust 3D now. But to me, it's because you did not address, why in the world are you presenting it beautifully. If you can even attach it to your physical process, because what we want to do is be able to trust, decide. And because when you can decide that's when all your time comes down, right, reduce. And that's where agility really happened.

Bret Schnitker 

The whole conversation about you're building it from a pattern file forward. Karabanov talked about that, where he built this entire collection using his expertise as a tailor for this designer to hit a runway show in a few weeks in Paris. And the designer was able to experiment to wild degrees create these wonderful collections. Valentin's like, I loved what I saw. And then the designer was like, okay, send the pattern files to the pattern house. And he was like, I'm not sure he was even after so many years. He's like, are you sure you want to do that. And the fashion designer had such faith of that. He goes, sure enough, suddenly, it goes to the fashion house, they make the garments, they look exquisite on the runway, it's about trusting that digital twin that you mentioned and built into Browzwear that occurs. So, people love to hear a preview of coming attractions, I probably want to, is there anything you can share with us? What's next for browser without giving anything away?

Sharon Lim 

We always give things away

Bret Schnitker 

Look no one is listening we are a new podcast. So, you just tell me I'll put my ear up against the microphone?

Sharon Lim 

No, I think

Bret Schnitker 

I won't tell anyone, Sharon.

Sharon Lim 

Well, I think we start, we're continuing the journey, every piece of technology and everything else that we build, we will continue to put them in a way that people can scale and scale up much faster, will continue to help people manage that change into that workflow. And some of it will be developing some pieces of technology that helps them to be able to see and envision a workflow a lot earlier, and then get on board especially joining, I think bringing all the stakeholders together in a more automated and scalable way. The next couple of years will be for us. Because while you know, DPC, digital product creation is coming along, and people are moving the university and all the other things are supporting this group, I think the next part of it is just helping company automate a lot of this process for them to scale up more significantly. This is, this is already in the works for us. We've done that with releasing, for example, technology like headless. I think we've released it, maybe last year, and some of our customers have started to adopt it, learn to adopt it, with our help to automate their process, so that they can do things I think, scale up much faster than if they were to wait for, get everyone on board before they could do anything. So, part of the work of scaling up automation and all this things that you've seen us release. And we are continuing to help people to work on this as well. It just doesn't happen overnight, just because I put a bunch of automation. I remember when we automated this. And in the tech world, everybody knew exactly what to do with it. And when we put it into the fashion world, the first thing people call and I got so many calls people ask me, so what is the headless? What do I do with it? So, it's that education.

Bret Schnitker 

Tech meets fashion.

Sharon Lim 

Yeah. So, it's automation. And I think skill up that is really going to drive the roadmap for Browzwear.

Bret Schnitker 

So very eloquently, you've told us nothing. You've not told us any secrets that we can share with the people.

Emily Lane 

She did share quite a bit with us today. Thank you so much, Sharon, for this wonderful conversation. If you too, are looking to unleash your creativity in this space. We're going to make sure to provide a link to Browzwear in our show notes. You can of course, reach out to us on our website at Starsdesigngroup.com or any of our socials @clothingcoulture @starsdesigngroup. Thanks again, Sharon for joining us today. Make sure to subscribe so you can stay apprised of upcoming episodes of Clothing Coulture.

Bret Schnitker 

Thanks, Sharon

Sharon Lim 

All right, thanks Emily, thanks Bret. Take care, bye.

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